4th year Undergrad questions...

[L.Holl]

Hey guys and girls,

i have a few questions i was hoping someone could shed some light on for me...

1. I dont have chem/physics/organic chem. My plan is to take a prep course for the MCAT, write it at the end of this summer, and apply to those schools that dont require these courses after the summer (given i have an acceptable mark on my first MCAT attempt). Then next september 2012 i plan on staying another year to pick up those 3 courses i have missed, and boost marks in past classes that might hold me back. Does anything about this plan hinder my chance of getting into school? After i completed these courses this time next year (spring 2013), i would re-write the MCAT if my mark wasnt as high as i wanted it to be, and apply to all the med schools i think i have a chance in getting into.

My worry with this plan is these courses might decrease my GPA...so should i just not take them and focus on the schools which done require these pre-reqs?

2. My extra-curriculars...or lack there of. I have some things, but am lacking things such as volunteer experience and school involvement. This i would also pick up next september to build a strong resume. My question is how long do they look backwards to your extra-curriculars?

3. Marks. My goal this semester is to aim for a 4.0GPA (out of 4.3), which should bring my academic standing within my last two years (the current year and 3rd year) to a strong point. My concern is...will my 5th year (chem, physics, organic chem, etc) be considered in my 'last two year' calculation since its an additional year tacked onto the 4 year kin program, or would they just be used as prerequisites?

4. I understand it will most likely take at least 2 attempts of applying after i have obtained the full prerequisites, so my goal would to get accepted to a school by September 2015. Is this too long after i have graduated from my undergrad to still apply to med school?

5. I have been reading a lot about the Caribbean as an option for med school. This interests me greatly, however i am concerned about some websites saying med students who travel abroad to study medicine (Ireland, Aruba, etc.), have a VERY hard time getting a competitive Canadian residency, and an even tougher time getting a residency in Aruba. Is there any truth to this or is it people just trying to keep med student hopefuls internal to Canadian soil?

Thanks a ton, sorry for the long winded post

[KMMD]

1. Don't think it will hinder you but if you are worried about GPA, you could look into taking them in the summer (some schools don't look at summer courses in GPA calculations and I think most accept prereqs done in the summer - for schools you are interested in, I would double check this)

2. They usually look back to age 16, atleast in Ontario - not saying that ones during undergrad may carry more weight (however I know that Ottawa only looks at ECs done during undergrad - not sure about any other exceptions)

3. Depends when you apply - if you don't get in this time and you apply in 2013, then your last completed year would count. I am not sure if there is a difference if you take a 5th year vs. a special year (but I think in general if a school is looking at last two years, it would be the last two completed years)

4. As long as you continue to have experiences and add to your app throughout the years this is not a problem (as far as I know) in terms of your degree, but a lot of schools only accept MCATs done within 5 years of applying.

5. There is a lot of truth to this. In my opinion, Caribbean schools should be a last resort or if you want to do residency in the US rather than Canada.

*Disclaimer* All of this information is to the best of my knowledge through two years of applying and I THINK is accurate. However, this should in no way be taken as official information

Best of luck with your plans!

[future_doc]

For practical purposes, you will be wasting your $$ today to go to the Carib in the current environment as you cannot practice there nor will you likely here.

[L.Holl]

I certainly dont want to handicap myself with the courses...so i think it will be a calculated risk to take the prerequisites or not.

My reasoning for not is there are 5 schools in Canada that dont require them, and the already noted issue of possibly decreasing my gpa.

My reasoning for taking them is to increase my 'marketability' as a pre-med hopeful.

at any rate...about the Caribbean schools...Do you guys have any guess on the handicap that is placed on students for getting a North American (say america for sake of conversation) residency that studied in the Caribbean? or is it relatively equal with those students who did their med school in the States/Canada?

thanks for the posts guys, really appreciate it.

[IamIDP]

Originally Posted by L.Holl

I certainly dont want to handicap myself with the courses...so i think it will be a calculated risk to take the prerequisites or not.

My reasoning for not is there are 5 schools in Canada that dont require them, and the already noted issue of possibly decreasing my gpa.

My reasoning for taking them is to increase my 'marketability' as a pre-med hopeful.

at any rate...about the Caribbean schools...Do you guys have any guess on the handicap that is placed on students for getting a North American (say america for sake of conversation) residency that studied in the Caribbean? or is it relatively equal with those students who did their med school in the States/Canada?

thanks for the posts guys, really appreciate it.

I do not understand people who want to go into medicine and yet they refuse to take the most basic core courses. There is a reason why chemistry and physics and orgo is required. They don't force us to take these courses just to torture us but because they are the foundations of medicine. Despite people who have art degrees, econ or other degrees...everyone has taken some type of course in chem/ physics/ orgo especially to prepare for the MCAT.

Well I don't want to lecture you, but if you really want to do medicine I would suggest you face your fears and take ATLEAST chem. If you must, take them 1 by 1 but it's extremely EXTREMELY hard to avoid them, especially regular chem. Good luck.

P.S. There's only 3 schools you can apply without chem, orgo, or physics: Queens, Mac, and Northern, please correct me if i'm wrong.

[SharkLvr]

Originally Posted by L.Holl

at any rate...about the Caribbean schools...Do you guys have any guess on the handicap that is placed on students for getting a North American (say america for sake of conversation) residency that studied in the Caribbean? or is it relatively equal with those students who did their med school in the States/Canada?

Here's what I've heard:

Getting through med school in the Carribean and making yourself a competitive application to apply to the US match is itself a huge task. It's an uphill climb for many reasons:

1. Getting through caribbean pre-clerkship med school is often much more demanding than here. Their grading schemes (from what I've heard) are quite unforgiving compared to the P/F we have here. Not keeping up could lead to a permanent poor academic record or even dismissal (more common than you might think in the Caribbean).

2. Need to ACE the USMLEs - as a caribbean student, you will have to do that much better than a US grad on the USMLE to land a decent residency. That's just the way it is.

3. Clerkship is in the states, but again I have heard that it can be harder to excel when you are viewed as 'the caribbean student'. Definitely not saying it's impossible by any stretch, but you enter the game with points against you.

4. If they do match, a large # of Caribbean grads match to "less desirable" residency programs/locations. Again, this is average, but it will take that extra kick to match to an excellent program.

These issues get even harder for Canada. Even though there's no USMLEs, matching in Canada is even harder.

A warning: if you look at the websites of most Caribbean schools, you will see match lists that don't look too bad (with large percentages of their graduating classes who applied landing residency positions in the states and even a select few in Canada). However, they often only show where the students in the graduating class who applied to residency in the first place go, as many students don't make it through med schools (if you're not on your toes there, flunking out is a very real possibility) or aren't competitive enough to even apply for the match. I'm not saying every school does this, but some certainly do so it's good to be critical of what you read out there.

There are no guarantees. Of course I have seen many success stories, but equally as many not-so-successful ones. As previous posters mentioned, try and exhaust all your other options before going the offshore route.

Good Luck!

[L.Holl]

Originally Posted by IamIDP

P.S. There's only 3 schools you can apply without chem, orgo, or physics: Queens, Mac, and Northern, please correct me if i'm wrong.

There are 5 schools in Canada not requiring them.

Dalhousie, McMaster, Northern, Queens, and UofT

Thanks for the posts...I have been considering taking those prerequisites more and more to allow me to market myself better for getting into med school and also alleviating pressure once i am taking medical courses that have components in them that i haven't seen since high school (physics and chem).

Q: Would it be a bad idea to take the MCAT without taking the prerequisites first? If i was to take the mcat before i would obviously prep for 3-4 months with a mcat designated prep course, but still need to figure out my timing.

[KMMD]

I feel you...I never took physics and there are some schools I cannot apply to and I will consider taking it if I am unsuccessful this cycle.

As for the MCAT, I took a prep course (never took physics) and it worked out well, but it did require more work than the other sections (e.g. bio and organic chem) which I had a background in

There is no right way to do things, only what is right for you

[IamIDP]

Originally Posted by L.Holl

There are 5 schools in Canada not requiring them.

Dalhousie, McMaster, Northern, Queens, and UofT

Thanks for the posts...I have been considering taking those prerequisites more and more to allow me to market myself better for getting into med school and also alleviating pressure once i am taking medical courses that have components in them that i haven't seen since high school (physics and chem).

Q: Would it be a bad idea to take the MCAT without taking the prerequisites first? If i was to take the mcat before i would obviously prep for 3-4 months with a mcat designated prep course, but still need to figure out my timing.

You can learn physics portion on your own according to most people since it's basics. Same with orgo and chem but it's much more difficult to practice by yourself than physics. However, I have yet to take the MCAT so a 2nd opinion would be adviced.

[silverwhale9]

Originally Posted by L.Holl

There are 5 schools in Canada not requiring them.

Dalhousie, McMaster, Northern, Queens, and UofT

Thanks for the posts...I have been considering taking those prerequisites more and more to allow me to market myself better for getting into med school and also alleviating pressure once i am taking medical courses that have components in them that i haven't seen since high school (physics and chem).

Q: Would it be a bad idea to take the MCAT without taking the prerequisites first? If i was to take the mcat before i would obviously prep for 3-4 months with a mcat designated prep course, but still need to figure out my timing.

Western has no prereqs either.