CaRMS Stats

[mavrik13]

Originally Posted by 1234

Anyone can do the job. The question is, will they be given the opportunity - and that question is too complicated for anyone to pre-emptively state that they won't be given an opportunity, that is why people try. One seemingly random connection with an influential clinician on the residency admission panel anywhere and a spot could be yours. This is especially true for residency admission in Canada, where, for the most part, there are few to no objective values for admission panels to go by.

I also strongly disagree with this. I think objective values for residency matching is over rated. Is someone with a higher USMLE score really better qualified for a competitive specialty in the States? Being able to make good social connections is extremely important in the "real world" where we all (eventually) will end up - why should it be irrelevant when it comes to residency matching? A random connection with an influential clinician will never get you a residency spot - at most, it will get you an interview. You're fooling yourself if you think the residency selection committee thinks "Oh, well, he didn't interview well, he hasn't shown much interest in the field, I'm not sure he is a good fit for our program... but he has a good reference letter from David Sackett so we will rank him"

[rmorelan]

Originally Posted by battleford

I think you're taking it too literally. They can't MAKE you do anything. But some schools are quite good at sitting students down and encouraging applying to multiple specialties and hedging bets with family medicine. Some schools aren't.

ha, sure that was my understanding - it almost sounded like Ottawa stood over you when you submitted your app

[abcwxyz]

Originally Posted by 1234

The ignorance doesn't lie with the statistics themselves, but those who interpret them. Information is valuable, provided you take it within context. General match rate is only one of a hundred statistical values we are provided by Carms. Taken within context, this provides students with A LOT of information that can assist in their decision-making process. Don't discount data simply because you are unable to utilize it to your advantage.

Why is the match rate an "embarrassment"? For who? The school? The student? This is the real world - not matching is a hurdle, not an epic failure that cannot be overcome. It's time to get past the superficiality that is "image" and "perception". People are making life changing career decisions - most of us have transcended image to what is most important: happiness. It might be time to do the same.

"I hope that it will evoke change in student counselling, promotion of backup choices & promotion of non-lucrative specialties." - There is so much ignorance in this statement. The match rate is a product of resident selection process itself, not McMaster's ability to counsel patients or "promote backup choices". Despite the promotion of elective diversification, those that pursue more competitive specialties are ultimately required to focus electives on one specific field - backing up is a tougher and tougher process, whether it be related to elective experience, acquisition of field-specific reference letters, etc.

Why should the school promote backups? Believe it or not, medical students are relatively intelligent. Students know whether they are pursuing a competitive specialty. They know the risk of being unsuccessful. Every school recommends backing up - EVERY SCHOOL. No need to mandate backing up or threatening students that they aren't going to match. Students have the information and make choices. Ultimately, students will match to something and wind their way to happiness. Other than to protect their own statistics, I see zero value in schools promoting backups more than they already do.

"I probably should have been beat down and put in my place early on in med school - instead I had an overinflated sense of self worth and assumed I could do anything. My specialty interests were initially completely out of my own capabilities. Fortunately, I eventually found my passion which also fit my skillset."

Believe it or not, unless you have a physical impairment that doesn't allow you to operate, there is no skillset that cannot be developed. This isn't the Olympics, where innate ability/talent is required for you to be successful. This is medicine - pattern recognition and practice leads to competence and success. Innate talent may make it easier, but it is definitely not a requirement.

I don't really care to type a response but I disagree.

[Avalanche]

Originally Posted by japlanet

Yeah I've heard 20 plus 4 from regional campuses for a total of 24, over 10% of our class.

Lots of people applied to competitive subspecialities and didn't hedge their bets. We were also one of the youngest classes ever, so much less interest in family med than traditional for McMaster.

Still lots of rads/derm/optho matches. The sticking point for many of the unmatched was plastics.

I heard Radiology didn't do that well either, but yes, I can confirm that your statistics is what I heard yesterday night. Pretty sad.

Originally Posted by abcwxyz

Yes the figure is entirely reflective of what the class applied to.

The match rate is really a stupid statistic because it doesn't account for what people are actually applying to. It also doesn't account for people who matched but are very unhappy with where they have ended up.

It's funny that I paid heed to the match rate before medical school but now realize that this is an entirely irrelevant statistic.

For the record, it also doesn't account for people who didn't do well in terms of getting interviews.

Originally Posted by jpc43

geez, any idea how many ppl applied to plastics?!

From what I know, there were 7 people going for plastics 12-13 for diagnostic radiology and 7 for opthomology. We got hammered in the Plastics department, less hammered in radiology and did well in optholmology.

[lostintime]

I don't think applicants have anything to be "embarrassed" about either. Most of them are high achievers who didn't want any family spot that was likely a lot easier to get than the spot they were going for. Not that there's anything wrong with family spots, just that it wasn't what they wanted.

For the most part, I would say CaRMS is pretty fair as in the real world. But JUST like the real world, sometimes people get in for random reasons, and other people due to various "other" type of connections (not just based on good social networking skills on the individual's own part). So not in so much that CaRMS is special in not being fair and random, but it really is quite a true reflection of what happens for real jobs etc.

[lostintime]

Originally Posted by 1234

Skillset to be competent in a specialty, and, the ability to acquire a position, are two completely seperate concepts. You can't somehow push those two concepts together to make your argument valid.

Anyone can do the job. The question is, will they be given the opportunity - and that question is too complicated for anyone to pre-emptively state that they won't be given an opportunity, that is why people try. One seemingly random connection with an influential clinician on the residency admission panel anywhere and a spot could be yours. This is especially true for residency admission in Canada, where, for the most part, there are few to no objective values for admission panels to go by.

Yeah at the beginning of year 1 med, I suppose you could say that anyone could do anything. But by third year of clerkship, if you haven't molded yourself into an ophtho or derm keener, then I would you have a VERY VERY steep uphill climb. It has been done in the past, but really, odds are not in your favor.

[vancity88]

it really shows that Mac didn't emphasize the importance of having a GOOD backup plan. Ultimately, instead of having a decent backup plan, they are now left scrambling for one of very few desirable, English speaking 2nd round spots.

Yeah, but the thing is, schools can't MAKE their students do anything, and some students, regardless of how much coaching they get about backing up, still aren't going to do it. Moreover, there are people who legitimately would be happier not matching to something they really want and trying again next year than matching to something they really don't want.

[battleford]

wow that's a lot to sort out. i wonder what the situation is like there

[rmorelan]

Originally Posted by vancity88

Yeah, but the thing is, schools can't MAKE their students do anything, and some students, regardless of how much coaching they get about backing up, still aren't going to do it. Moreover, there are people who legitimately would be happier not matching to something they really want and trying again next year than matching to something they really don't want.

yeah that is true - that year off is tough though. I mean technically you aren't student anymore so you cannot go into the hospitals etc. Makes it hard to develop more contacts/skills to impress people.

[vancity88]

Yup, definitely not a situation anyone wants to be in