Can you open a walk in clinic/work in a family practice as an EM doc?

[leviathan]

Originally Posted by crockett

This is assuming that you would call a doctor who has the 2+1 ER certificate a generalist. Not sure if this is the case, as in rural areas you often get family doc's with no +1 working in the ER, so they could be the generalists you are referring to. That being said, I have no personal knowledge of the Quebec health care system, so maybe the 5 year guys actually do make more than 2+1's. On another note, the 5 year EM program does allow you to do things that the 2+1 doesn't such as Critical Care/ICU through the R4 match, which I guess would be a possible option for those worried about burning out in strictly emerg work.

The pay is definitely the same. If you bill for a procedure, it doesn't matter whether you're a GP or a surgeon or an intensivist; there is only one billing code for one procedure for all doctors. Again I guess this might be different if you're in Quebec, which is news to me.

Only the 5 year guys/girls can then proceed to do more years of ICU training if they wish/if they're crazy enough.

[Satsuma]

To the OP: Though you cannot open a family medicine practice (which would be the walk in clinic you are refering to) you can work in urgent care centres as an FRCPC - so if you want to slow down a bit, that is an option.

The FRCPC program is not going away, I don`t know where the person who got that information heard that from. It may down the road go to a 4 year program. It was a 4 year program in the past keep in mind.


Regarding flexibility of the FRCPC vs EM. It all depends on what you want to do. Sure with EM you can do family and ER shifts - but that doesn`t really mean a whole lot if you don`t want to do family. With the FRCPC program you have fellowships open to you that are not possible with family med, for example, critical care. So there is still flexibility with FRCPC, just the options are different.

[ploughboy]

As far as I know, CAEP is yet again looking at the notion of a single training track for emergency physicians, or maybe just thinking about looking at it again. As far as I know, any time in the past that this has been mooted, the CCFP and the RCPSC didn't see eye-eye and it was dropped. There are arguments in favour of keeping two separate streams, and arguments in favour of a unified, probably 4-year, program.

As for clinics - I know of FRCPC docs who hold methadone licenses and do that a half-day or a day a week for variety. I also know of an FRCPC staff whose exit out of shiftwork is a cosmo clinic that he and a business partner are starting. A little bit of botox here, a little bit of filler there and eventually no more ED shifts for him some day.

But ya, traditional "family medicine" wouldn't be an option if you go the 5-year route.

[Byrne]

Originally Posted by shannn

I've always wondered this...

Because, I'm starting to really get interested in EM, but I don't know if I can do it for the rest of my life...and it doesn't sound like the 2+1 FM+EM is going to be around much longer...

I might have totally misheard or misunderstood a FRCPC ER doc I worked with over the holidays, but I could have sworn I heard him talking about how busy he was in the 'clinic' the prior week. It seemed like he was talking about a walk-in clinic ...

[leviathan]

Originally Posted by Byrne

I might have totally misheard or misunderstood a FRCPC ER doc I worked with over the holidays, but I could have sworn I heard him talking about how busy he was in the 'clinic' the prior week. It seemed like he was talking about a walk-in clinic ...

Could have been any variety of clinics, just not a family clinic.

[cheech10]

Some EDs have Urgent Care Clinics, similar to Minor/Fast-Track, associated with them. Maybe this is what they were talking about.

[Knovecc]

An ER (FM 2+1) doc was invited to talk about his job in my university (Quebec), he confirmed that there is a income difference between those 5yr (EM) and 2+1 (FM) trainees, the latter being between 180k and 280k, with average of 220k here in Quebec

[Knovecc]

Originally Posted by jocor59

so in Québec they bill and there IS a difference between the 5yr and 2+1 huh? I was wondering about NB (or anywheres in the Maritimes really), but I heard a doc say something about ER docs getting payed roughly 180$/hour in Moncton ... sounds kinda high! anybody have some insight on this?

And could a 2+1 do some ICU in smaller centres?

180$/h... hmmm thats 320k /yr if you work 40h/wk, 45wk/yr, sounds not bad
as for ICU, i dont think so though, you should be at least a general internist...well but im not sure

[thebouque]

Originally Posted by Knovecc

180$/h... hmmm thats 320k /yr if you work 40h/wk, 45wk/yr, sounds not bad
as for ICU, i dont think so though, you should be at least a general internist...well but im not sure

Do ER docs really work 40 hours a week? I thought they needed 12-15 8 hours shifts per month to be full time...
And in some places, family docs are in charge of the ICU.

[ploughboy]

Originally Posted by jocor59

so in Québec they bill and there IS a difference between the 5yr and 2+1 huh? I was wondering about NB (or anywheres in the Maritimes really), but I heard a doc say something about ER docs getting payed roughly 180$/hour in Moncton ... sounds kinda high! anybody have some insight on this?

And could a 2+1 do some ICU in smaller centres?

$180/hr sounds about right, maybe a touch on the high side but not outrageous. $150-$160 is not uncommon, often with additional compensation for procedures, WSIB notes etc.

I know of 2+1s who work in small ICUs, or at least cover the unit overnight and then sign over to the the unit doc in the morning.

And ya, a full line is 12-14 shifts per month.