MD/PhD

[Brainz]

Anyone considering this or in a program now? What are your thoughts on these programs?


I wouldn't even apply until after I did my Master's but was just thinking the last couple of days about applying to programs like this.

[shannn]

I know a couple of MD/PhD's at Toronto.

The program is kind of weird, you start year 1 with the MD class, then you spend the next 5 years completing your PhD, then you rejoin the 2nd year class (usually, you complete your defense during "2nd year", so you have the title doctor already), and year 3 and 4 are your clerkship years as normal. It is odd to have such a long interruption though.

But I'm not sure how other schools do it.

[Flow Cytometry]

MD/PhD certainly is a difficult program, because your early medical experience gets diluted by your graduate studies. Even for people in medical school who di a straight MD find it very challenging to recall knowledge in the clinical years from their pre-clinical years.

However, many people are in this program, but just have to know that it is a difficult program as either MD or PhD program is difficult.

[DXO]

They should have an MD/MSc combination. Might be appealing to some people.

[Brainz]

They do have those... from what I hear, there's lots of opportunities to do a M.Sc. or a PHD one inside the MD program. I think almost every school in canada has some sort of research component available to MD students these days, if you wanted to pursue it.

[jsmith1a2000]

Originally Posted by shannn

I know a couple of MD/PhD's at Toronto.

The program is kind of weird, you start year 1 with the MD class, then you spend the next 5 years completing your PhD, then you rejoin the 2nd year class (usually, you complete your defense during "2nd year", so you have the title doctor already), and year 3 and 4 are your clerkship years as normal. It is odd to have such a long interruption though.

But I'm not sure how other schools do it.

so the 2nd year class is actually the 7th year ?
weird indeed, but it's pretty cool to have a M.D ph.d at the end of your name though

[shannn]

Originally Posted by jsmith1a2000

so the 2nd year class is actually the 7th year ?
weird indeed, but it's pretty cool to have a M.D ph.d at the end of your name though

AFAIK, the MD/PhD program at UT works like this:

Year 1 - with the rest of the first years
Year 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 - working on your PhD
Year 6 - while working on your dissertation, you are also in Year 2 with the MD's
Year 7 and 8 - Clerkship

Some get away with working on their PhD's for only 4 years.

It's a long haul, but worth it for many

[TheFonz]

shannn is largely correct.

See: http://www.utoronto.ca/mdphd/about.htm

"Students accepted into the combined program may pursue the dual degrees via either a sequential or an integrated route. In the sequential model, students with a four-year Bachelor's degree enter the medical program on a full-time basis and graduate school on a part-time basis. After completion of the basic science component of medical school (one and a half years), the student undertakes full-time graduate work until completion of the PhD. The student then returns to complete medical school.

For a more integrated approach, students with a four-year Bachelor's degree will enter the MD/PhD program, and within a period not exceeding six years, complete the requirements of the first two years of the MD program, and all requirements of the PhD program. During this time, opportunity for curriculum integration will be pursued on an individual basis. The student then returns to medical school to complete the clinical clerkship years three and four.

The MD/PhD degrees are obtained in an average of eight years. The length of graduate training is variable and depends largely on departmental requirements and the time needed to complete a dissertation. MD/PhD students are eligible for financial assistance from various sources. A limited number of MD/PhD studentships from the Canadian Institute of Health Research are available on a competitive basis which provide funding for six years, beginning in the second year of the students program. The Program also offers CIHR/Rx&D studentship awards to selected students. During the period of full time graduate study, students may be eligible for U of T Open Fellowships, OGS awards, or funding from external agencies. Supervisors may also provide stipends from operating grants to support an MD/PhD student. Stipends for third and fourth year medical school are also available for MD/PhD students."

[DXO]

I think I would separately apply to medicine and do a PhD later, or vice versa, if this were something that interested me. Doing a simultaneous MD/PhD just seems confusing and complicated...

Edit: Also, if you're going to wait four years in between your first and second year of medicine.... the curriculum CAN significantly change in that amount of time.

[TheEggman]

I have a friend in the MD/PhD program at UWO, he is very research oriented (MRI stuff) and will probably mostly be doing research during his career.

The program at UWO is 7 years, so you only have 3 to complete a PhD, but you work on your PhD during the summers of year 1 and 2 of Meds.

Western is pretty flexible with its program, most people do 2 med -> 3 phd -> 2 clerkship, but you can do 4 med -> 3 phd or 3 phd -> 4 med if you want to do meds as a straight shot (I think I would, I'd be worried about forgetting everything when I got to that first day of clerkship).

As it stands my friend and I will be in the same clerkship years, so I'll let you know in 2 years how his MD/PhD went