anybody in Ireland...

Hi,

I'm seriously considering applying to Irish med. schools this year (for 5 year degrees). I'm soliciting advice from anybody who is already in school there or knows about the processes.

1) how much does it cost
2) how do you finance the cost since I'm sure it's high
3) do you do residency in Ireland or apply for residency elsewhere (ie. the US)
4) how have you found the education there?
5) have you found it to be worth the trouble

I can't see myself doing anything other than medicine. My credentials except my MCAT score (28Q) are good. I am thinking that becoming an IMG might be my only way of becoming a physician, but I don't want to set myself up for something that I won't be able to complete until I'm 40 since it'll take me forever to be able to practice!

Gonzo,

I was looking into Ireland when I decided to go abroad so my info might be a little old:

1) I think most Irish schools are around the ball park of 30,000 -40,000 euros

2) If you are Canadian you can try Canada Student Loans, depending on your age and financial status you may not get that much. You can also try US banks and BMO in Canada, you will probably require a co-signor for this though

3) Getting residency in Ireland after graduation is very tough for foreign students. It's not impossible though. Though you can write the USMLEs and try for the US

4) Education there is among the best in the world...the Irish schools do not use Problem based learning which a lot of schools are adopting but this isn't really a big deal.

5) As an IMG there are no guarantees! Before picking any school I advise you to consider the following:

Where you want to end up after graduation
What are you choices if you don't get what you wanted?
Would you mind staying in your "host" country

I'm just starting to look into applying through Atlantic Bridge. Could anyone give me a general timeline for their application process. For example, app deadline, interview dates, acceptance notice...etc. Anything would be appreciated. Thanks!

1) how much does it cost
Tuition: 21,000 Euros
Rent: 400 Euros monthly (shared apartment)
Food, drinks, etc: More than in Canada!
2) how do you finance the cost since I'm sure it's high
Loans, of course. (Teri loans, through Atlantic Bridge)
3) do you do residency in Ireland or apply for residency elsewhere (ie. the US)
USA. Some have gotten spots in Canada 2nd round. Many Canadians do internships in Ireland though, as it pays well (50-60,000 Euros)
4) how have you found the education there?
Fine, same stuff as in North America, preclinically anyway.
5) have you found it to be worth the trouble
Yes, although I'd advise trying at least twice in Canada before coming.
Atlantic Bridge had an application deadline of the end of December I think. But they really don't stick to it, and don't usually mind if its late (typical to how Irish do things).
There aren't interviews accept for RCSI.
Acceptances start in March.
Any other questions welcome, it might take me a while to reply though.

Why don't you try the US? It's closer to home and your MCAT score isn't that bad. You can probably get into a lower tier MD school or a DO school. And afterward it's easier to get back to Canada than with an Irish degree. (Not to mention matching to a US residency would be much easier.) Not to mention it's only four years as opposed to five.

Hi, I was thinking about applying to Ireland...acutally i'll post tommorrow on details regarding stats for North American students. In the mean time, can you guys and gals give me some advice on my situation below.


Firstly, I've wanted to be a doctor since 18; however, because my parents pushed me towards the field I sort of rebelled. Thus, I decided to double major in Econ and science. After a year, I quickly realized I hated econ and had a real passion for the study of disease, learning about treatments, and marvelled at how the body worked. Although I prmiarly liked bio I was fortunate to choose electicves that intrested me. Much of my elective course work was in arts courses such philosophy, english and pysch, ancient civilizations. Anyhow, to make a long story short, in my 3rd year I applied to medical school but I was rejected; however, I wasn't disapointed b/c I knew I didn't work har enough to get in. In fact, I was so scared of the MCAT that I decided not to take it. As a result, I only applied to schools that did not require MCAT's (I'm a Canadian and I applied to Canadian schools only). Thus, I spent the next two years of school busting my ass. I did not take a break and spent six semesters straight in school. The hardwork paid of as my GPA was a 3.80, 3.85 in my last two years. However during my last year I considered an alternative to med school. I became very interested in the ethics of science and the field of bioethics. For instance, I was very interested in the ethics of stem cell research. I guess, for the first time in my life my eyes opened as I began to consider many perspectives towards an issue. Anyhow, during my last year I contacted several law schools to explore if any oppourtunities existed between science and the law. My research showed me that many science undergrads go on to a succesful career in law in the fields of patent law, IP law, and health law. Thus, I was excited b/c I thought I'd have the opportunity to maintain my interets in science and use it for a useful purpose in law school.

Sorry for the story but I would really like the opinion of some of you MD/JD's....anyhow, I was accepted to several law schools; however, as the date to begin law school came closer I spent many sleepless night. I was very anxious about going, and I feared that I was making a horrible mistake. I don't know if it was fear of the uknown or something in my gut but I just didn't feel that going to law school was okay. The reason was b/c I still desired to become a doctor. Some of my friends who have gone on to foriegn medical school would tell storied about their clinical experinces and I just kept telling my self "I should be there. Wow that sounds so darn exciting".

Anyhow, I decided to defer my law school admission untill Sept 2004. I took this year off to study for the MCAT, and I already applied to the schools that don't require an MCAT.

Finally, I need your advice on the following. I've only really wanted to practice medicine in Canada. I have no desire to practice in the U.S. or anywhere else. Canada is my home, my friends, family, and potential mate all live here. As i'm sure you are all aware going the foriegn route to become a doctor is very tough. It's very tough to obtain a residency in the U.S. but much more difficult to get a residency in Canada. Infact, the general principle is for any student who studies medicine outside of Canada they have a very slim chance of practing in Canada.

I know I want to be a doctor but I don't think I'm willing to give up my home to practice medicine. Thus, would it be foolish to attend law school next year?

My rational is that maybe I should give law a shot. If I didn't like it I could always reapply to medical school, or consider the foreign route. I guess my problem I don't seem very passionate about law because I don't have alot of exposure in it.

For all of you JD students? Were you passionate about the law before u attended law school? What sorts of activites did u engage in to test your motivaton for law school? Is their anything that I can do to get a better feel for what lawyers with a science background do.

I've talked to patent lawyers but it's next to impossible to shadow one b/c of confidentiality. Would attending law school classes help?

Thanks....I hope I didn't offend anyone...just need some advice from people who are in 2 backgrounds that i'm interested in. To me it seems, that both medicine and law seem more that just a regular job

Moo,

From what I've seen, DO school isn't respected very much! I have a 28Q, but a 7V. I don't think that'll cut it. I know there have been instances where people have gotten into the US, but I can't bank on that b/c of my verbal score.

I'm considering writing the MCAT one last time in august, but that'll mean my app. will go in late for US schools. I'd write in april but it's my graduating term, and I really don't think I can handle it with school (especially since I need to find some serious time to just sit and read to improve verbal).

I'm actually up in arms on what to do. I've applied to 7 schools (5 in canada and 2 in Ireland) this year. I guess we'lll see how it goes. I'm just so frustrated with the MCAT right now!!!

Is it really much much harder to get a US residency being a canadian Irish grad? My view is that if I write the USMLE as I would if I were in the US, I'd end up having to do just as well on it no matter what school I attended for med. school.

Eck!!!

Another reason I'd push Ireland is b/c I'd think I would get a better education from one of the good schools there than from a lower tier US school. Does anybody agree/disagree?

Hi Drpanno,

Quite a dilemma....

I'm a Canadian first year med student at GKT Medical School, King's College, University of London....I moved to the UK a little over 2.5 years ago after finishing a music degree at University of Toronto. I was not really planning on attending medical school let alone moving to London...I accompanied my partner who is a corporate/securities lawyer.

I would suggest that you seriously consider what sort of work compliments your personality traits...and get the lowdown on what PRACTISING law is really like. Don't waste your time auditing law school courses....law school is NOTHING like private practice....basically, lawyers spend most of their days at a desk, in front of a computer screen, typing emails, drafting contracts, documents, letters and legal facta and speaking with clients or opposing counsel on the phone. Yes, there are practice areas involving science, but your day-to-day job will involve reading, phone, computer and drafting, drafting and more drafting. Patent lawyers....draft patent applications/legal opinions and, depending on their specialisation, litigate patent infringement cases....which involves drafting letters/statements of claim or defence, attending discoveries, appearing in court (if and when necessary...which is not often because most disputes settle out of court). Some litigation lawyers specialise in medical malpractice (defence side or plaintiff side) - again, lots of telephone, drafting letters, claims, dealing with court procedure, conducting case law research, etc.....

As you can see, this is vastly different from the practice of medicine, which can be, depending on your specialty, much more of a physical job with a significant amount of patient contact, where every day is different, etc.....think ER, surgery, whatever.

Further, what is more important to you....having a career that you love or living in Ontario?....Keep in mind that a career in law or medicine involves a serious day-to-day time commitment, so you better love what you do.

I love Canada, but really, it is NOT the be all and end all....there is a world outside of Waterloo (which is a beautiful part of Ontario...I lived in Cambridge when I was young and my mother-in-law is from Galt).

If you are thinking about Irish med schools, you should also consider UK schools. I did not take the MCAT. Guy's St. Thomas' Kings School of Medicine has a special foundation year for non-science students like myself. Including the foundation year, it is a six year programme. So far, I love it. I'm not sure if there are any other Canadians in upper years at GKT (I don't believe so) but there are 5 Canadians in the foundation year behind me.

There is no set path in life. Sometimes it is best to take a chance...I'm glad I did.

Good luck,

Jane

I take it nobody has any thoughts on the comparison between Irish and US education for canadian students.

I thought my above post would bring out some opinions...

which is better? mediocre US school or good Irish school? how are students at a disadvantage in either case when the USMLE still has to be written?

cheers.

Quality-wise, it's a toss-up. But if your goal is to work in Canada, a mediocre US school will make life easier for you.

And besides, the "worst" US schools are, I would say, equivalent to the "worst" Canadian schools.