Admissions Rant

[EngrGuy]

Hey Guys/Gals,

I thought I'd rant a little here and maybe get some sort of good ideas from you. So background info; I'm 28 and am just finishing my M.A.Sc in Electrical Engineering. My undergrad GPA isn't great (3.0 and 3.32 last 2 years - and 3.6 for M.A.Sc). So I'm looking to do more undergrad work.

I'm not sure which school I want to go to but seeing how I have pretty much none of the prereqs I'm limited so I was thinking Dal (Since I'm here) or Calgary (I can move). I met up with someone at DalMed Admissions who told me that the extra undergrad year had to be all upper level courses (3rd and 4th year - with maybe some exception for 1 2nd year) and they wouldn't except distance like Athabasca.

So I sent some emails over to Calgary to ask about their requirement on the extra year and whether I should do 1st year classes (prereqs such as chem / ochem / bio etc) or upper level classes. Dr. Ian Walker responded to me telling me that it is subjective and to quote "Unfortunately, that is a question we cannot answer. It is impossible to speculate about how individual reviewers will see things when they come to review your file. I think the more important guiding principle is that you do what you think will be of greatest interest and benefit to you, rather than choosing things based on what you think might look good to others."

So this didn't really help me out much but I understand Calgary's admissions are subjective... but so are Dal's as I can't find the 3rd / 4th year regulation on their med admissions anywhere. I spoke to the head of Engineering at Dal and he explained that I could do a second degree in Biological Engineering in 2 years (start in my 3rd year) and to just apply and it shouldn't be a problem. So that was great; I thought I had a solution that would best fit. I am supporting my fiancée / wife (getting married in July) who's also in school and have a mortgage so I will have to continue working full time but I can handle it.

Then last week I received an email from Dal admissions saying that since I went to a college in Ontario (I did a transfer program) that they couldn't use any of the transfer credits because it's not a Nova Scotia accredited college. Also - since I didn't have a B- in any of my high school prereqs (I did poorly in high school - which prompted me to go to a college in the first place) I couldn't even get accepted into the 1st year of the engineering program (even though I already have a B.Eng and a M.A.Sc). I emailed the head of engineering who told me it wouldn't be an issue and he said he'd try to look into it but it doesn't look good.

So what are my options? Go back to high school so I can go back to do an undergrad so I can get into Med School? I'm really not sure what to do at this point. I can risk it and take 1st/2nd year prereqs classes - but the application processes are so subjective I'm scared I'll just have wasted a year that both Dal and Calgary will subjectively think isn't appropriate as an extra year. Thoughts?

Thanks
J

[aaronjw]

I'm confused. You say you have a poor UG GPA but that the UG in general is not acceptable?

[EngrGuy]

aaronjw - The undergrad I've take is acceptable for med admissions; but my GPA isn't high enough to be competitive. I just want to take a second undergrad to boost my GPA but because I did a College -> University transfer back in 2004 Dalhousie won't transfer any of the credits and are trying to use my high school grades as admissions criteria (which doesn't meet their minimum requirement outside of high school).

atomickitten86: Yes I've considered that; I've just read a lot about people having a hard time getting residencies when coming back into Canada and I really wouldn't want to be stuck like that. I'd rather give it my all trying in Canada - and if all fails I'd consider it for sure.

[wcoast11]

What about McMaster? They have a minimum of 3.0 GPA (obviously it helps if you're well above that, but still...), and if you score really well on the Verbal section of the MCAT (that's all they look at), and do well on the CASPer (Computer-Based Assessment for Sampling Personal Characteristics), you could get an interview there. McMaster also doesn't look at extra-curriculars directly, so if you're weak in that area from doing engineering and recently deciding to do medicine, then that's another thing in your favour.

Plus, you get a small bonus for having a Master's degree. You worked hard for that M.A.Sc - may as well get some credit for it.

From McMaster's website:

"Those applicants with a completed and conferred graduate degree at the time of application will receive the following advantage on the formula determining likelihood of invitation to interview:

Master's Degree holders: +0.01; PhD Degree holders: +0.04

Based on past years' experience, this will provide a significant, albeit not decisive, advantage for graduate degree holders."

[atomickitten86]

@ParaD. I'd like to see you say that medical students studying in the Carribean are "rich kids who are too lazy or stupid to get into a Canadian school" in front of a Canadian medical school admissions committe. I think your comments say a lot more about you than it says about the Carribean medical school system. Have some respect. I simply said that it was an option worth considering, so please don't bite my head off!

[10wattbulb]

Hi EngrGuy,

There's something that intrigues me very much about your situation. With a nice engineering degree, you can easily get a well-paid and comfortable job in the field. Engineers are very much in need in many places (look at NRC website and other gov websites) Why do you feel the need to get into med school? If I were on the ADCOM and had to interview you, I would certainly ask you this question.

[taboo]

If you do well on the MCAT (meaning upper 30s) Manitoba could be an option and doesn't require you to take upper year courses.

They likely won't consider your college work, so that may help or hurt you.

Any A+ at Dalhousie counts as a 4.5 at UofM instead of 4.3.I'm pretty sure any A- will be treated as A for a 4.0 and B+ would be a 3.5. So your GPA should be higher for UofM than it is at Dalhousie. If you lack consistency your GPA could improve by a lot with drops after two years of A+ (or 90%+ at a school that lists percentages on transcripts).

[10wattbulb]

Ok, you convinced me that Med school is really for you; I feel that if you can land an interview, the rest will be easy for you.

Now, if you do want to get accepted (sooner rather than later), you should really do research on all 14 English Med schools in Canada and try to apply as broadly as possible (even to some schools where you think your chances are practically non-existent; you can have some pleasant surprises). In Ontario, I feel that if you do well on the MCAT (especially on the Verbal Reasoning portion), then you could easily apply to McMaster even as of now (but you'll need a high VR score and a high CASPER score). At Western U., they look at your best 2 years in your honours degree to calculate your GPA; so if you do a 2nd undergrad and get a GPA of 3.7+, you got a good shot there too, providing you make their relatively high MCAT cut-offs. Your autobiographical sketch is probably going to be super awesome. At uOttawa, they have a funny way to calculate GPA (look at their website; the most recent year counts X3, 2nd most recent X2, 3rd most recent X1, after that X0), so if you do well in your 2nd undergrad by getting a GPA of 3.85+, you actually got a shot there too. And the MCAT is not considered at U of O. The point here is to do your research; it really pays off.

In your case, I feel that it's really just a question of raising your GPA up with a 2nd undergrad to give you more chances. But do study hard and take courses that you feel confident you can do well in. Do try and do very well on the MCAT (esp.VR); don't forget you can always retake it if your score is too low (although I think that Dalhousie frowns at premeders retaking the MCAT too many times; other schools usually don't). Also, realize that you might have to be very persistent to get in... Good luck!

[atomickitten86]

I admire people who go the extra mile to get what they want. But I think it should be within reason. I suggest you look into schools outside of Canada if you really want to be a doctor (e.g. Carribean). I'm not saying that's your only chance (there's always hope you'll get into Dal), but it's an option that you should investigate and consider.

[Real Beef]

Originally Posted by atomickitten86

I admire people who go the extra mile to get what they want. But I think it should be within reason.

+1

If you can pursue medicine by taking 2-3 extra years of undergrad that sounds reasonable. Having to jump through 6 dozen burning rings of fire to 'possibly' impress some abstract admissions committee without even knowing if it will be the right move seems a bit much when you have a new marriage, mortgage and supporting your spouse while she is in school.

I am all for pursuing your dream .... as I am ... but I know that what I am doing is getting me closer ... while neither of the main contacts at the med schools you are interested in can give you a guarantee what you are planning would do you any good.

Going back to high school? .... LOL ... that is just silliness ... dont let the Engineering adcom's make a fool of you ... you have a freaking MSc in Electrical Engineering and they wont let you in a similar undergrad ... dont let them make you act like a clown for their inflexible policies.

Beef