relative quality of Canadian medical schools

[cricketstix]

Hi,

I'm beginning the applications process right now, and would really appreciate a little feedback on which schools are considered highly for their medical programs.

I'm a Manitoba resident, and intend to also apply to U of C, U of Alberta, McGill, Western, and Ottawa.


Thanks a lot!

[Ian Wong]

They are all strong schools. I personally don't think there's much variation in the quality of each medical school. More importantly, find out a bit more about each school's curriculum (you can find much of this via the old postings in each school's forum), and figure out if your learning style fits that school's teaching process.

From there, also look into the city itself, climate, proximity to friends/family, tuition, cost of living, etc. You'll perform best in a school and city environment that makes you happy, and you'll get a good medical education at each of the schools you've mentioned.

As far as your admission chances go, invariably your best chances will be wherever you hold provincial residency status, or perhaps at schools that don't discriminate against you as an OOP applicant.

Ian
UBC, Med 3

[Jennifer Y]

cricketstix:
How I did it was talk to some doctors at the teaching hospitals and they will tell you what their experiences and opinions are re the quality of med residences from the different med schools. While this is not absolutely 100%, at least it gives you some ideas about some of the med schools in Canada. It helped me in narrowing down the choices of schools that I applied to. :)

[cricketstix]

Thank you both, Ian and Jennifer.

Although this is highly speculative, based on a 11.0 MCAT and a 4.1 GPA, what do you think options are, re Manitoba, Western, McGill, Calgary, and Alberta? I realise Manitoba is the last stronghold in terms of truly caring about the MCAT; the others, Ontario and Alberta provinces particularly, seem to me to be far more resume-inclined.


Thanks again

[missing Manitoba]

Hi cricketstix,

I'll give this a whirl.... :)

In terms of being "resume-inclined", Manitoba is not a whole lot less so than either Western or Alberta; the U of M simply puts more weight on the MCAT, rather than on marks. At Western, for example, the interview is worth 50%, while marks/VR/WS scores are also worth 50%. At Alberta, the split is also 50/50, with the interview being worth 25% and the essay 15%. (Alberta also weighs references for 5 and grad degrees for 5).

With your stats, as a Manitoban, you have a strong chance at Manitoba. For the others, simply because of the volume of people applying vs. the number of spots available, your chances will naturally be lower (just on a statistical basis), and therefore the "personal qualities" stuff would come even more into play; consequently, it would be difficult to assess the likelihood of your being accepted to the other schools. Also, as far as your chances, there are specific cut-offs to meet, particularly in terms of MCAT score breakdown, just to receive an interview.

As far as the relative merits of the various med schools in Canada, as Ian mentioned, they're all strong -- I would certainly be happy to receive an acceptance from any of them ;) -- but they do have some subtle and not-so-subtle differences in terms of their curricula/teaching methods, teaching hospitals, labs, students, etc. As I discovered during my recent jaunt through the interview process, it's difficult to get a good feel for a school and how you would fit into it unless you actually visit it yourself.

[Ian Wong]

I wouldn't want to hazard a guess as to your chances at each school, as the application process is so variable and unpredicatable. I think each med school looks for something a little different, and so the best school of thought for maximising your chances is to apply to as many schools as you are able.

MM brought up a great point, which is that your best opportunity by far to figure out whether a school is right for you comes at interview time. I think most schools have some sort of tour or social event organized where you can meet with med students or fellow applicants to exchange information and such. I found those really helpful for my interviews in Saskatchewan and Calgary; UBC didn't do such a thing when I applied, although we've since introduced some med student presentations and a social.

Ian
UBC, Med 3

[cricketstix]

Thanks again, Ian and MM. I really appreciate the opportunity to bounce a few ideas off someone with experience and knowledge.

[maxell]

My opinion, although maybe controversial, is as follows. Take is for what is is worth.

Based on my experience from studying for my masters at the UofM at the Faculty of Medicine, I am avoiding the UofM like hell. While graduate school has no bearing at all on the medical school program, the callousness of the people I came across with, as well as the lack of standards in general at the UofM, is sufficient reason for me to avoid the University of Manitoba. For me at least.

It is generally true that people with higher grades and MCATs choose other medical schools than Manitoba. This may have to do with the reputation of the university, or the fact that many Manitobans (perhaps tired of Winnipeg) choose to leave the province. Of the ten or so people who applied to medical school, only those who did not get accepted elsewhere stayed at the UofM. Having said that, there are people who only apply to the UofM due to family or financial considerations.

The 11 MCAT score you mentioned might not translate into an 11 in Ontario or elsewhere. Many places don't factor in the Essay score as Manitoba does (so basically, only VR, BS, and PS are added to obtain the total MCAT score, and then there are cut-offs for each). Also, based on where you studied in Manitoba, your GPA is converted to the OMSAS GPA for Ontario - my GPA of 4.4 Manitoba scale translates into a 3.94 OMSAS scale. You need to look at these factors to determine your competitiveness. Incidentally, I am told that the UofM includes the Essay score into the MCAT score to favour female candidates over male candidates, as traditionally women do better in essay writing than males.

Manitoba is basically an MCAT school. 50% of the total assessment is strictly based on the MCAT, as you know. In addition, getting an interview is based on your MCAT and GPA ONLY, as you need to write the autobiographical sketch after you get invited to attend. If you pick up an application, you will see that from the table, statistically 100% of candidates with high GPA and MCAT scores get accepted. This is very different from some Ontario medical schools, where a combination of factors including your autobio sketch, and essay determine whether you are even invited for further consideration.

[missing Manitoba]

Well, I'm feeling like quite the circus freak! 8o

1. The WS score is my LOWEST :( , yet...
2. I'm female.
3. I've interviewed at all the schools I applied to, and...
4. I thought the U of M was a great school and would be very happy to receive an acceptance.

Actually, I can see where Maxell is coming from. My brother attended the U of M for undergrad, and his program was less than spectacular; therefore, for students who've stayed home for "pre-med" degrees, I can definitely understand their having a desire to go elsewhere. However, I'm not certain that the quality of other programs at the U of M, even those within the Faculty of Medicine, is reflective of the quality of the medical school. Bearing in mind that medical schools DO have outside standards to live up to (board scores, residency placements, etc), whereas general undergrad and grad programs normally don't, it's reasonable to guess that the MD program might be of a higher overall quality than other programs at the U of M.

Of course, take my views with a grain of salt. What I am looking for in a med school will undoubtedly differ from what you or anyone else is looking for. Personally, I am impressed with the overall happiness of the U of M med students and the emphasis the school puts on community. If I were looking for a research school, the U of M might not be my first choice.

Thanks, Maxell, for giving another perspective. :)

[Terrence]

Ive had people who have told me do not repeat do not go to med school at UofM. Apparently the program is very weak, and that people who get accepted elsewhere certainly take advantage of the opportunity to go. The school in general is weak research and reputation wise both in the academic and clinical community, Nothing has really come out of their research, including stellar grants. Maxell, just curious why you did a masters there???? bad move my friend!

Terrance

[missing Manitoba]

Hi Terr(e/a)nce,

Every physician I've spoken to has told me not to worry about where I go for med school because students at all of the schools in Canada come out with essentially the same level of knowledge and clinical skills. I've never heard anything bad about the med school at the U of M.

Where did you get your information? I'm genuinely curious...

[Terrence]

I dont mean to cut the school up. I got my info from a friend who got accepted there and when talking to other schools that he was considering, they kinda told him about Manitoba's weakness in getting good reseidency positions etc. My dad who is a MD/Phd did research there before and now is at another med school. The consesus from the Phd and MD students he supervises is that productivity innovation and teaching excellence are at a very low level relative to other canadian schools. That being said, Residency directors like to see people who come from strong schools. Its true u will be MD no matter what but its interesting that UofT has the highest placement rate in the Carms first round match.

Terr(ae)nce (sorry its not my real name :)

[Ian Wong]

U of T doesn't have the highest match rate (not to mention that match rates aren't too reliable, as a school with a greater number of graduates going into less competitive specialties will have a very high match rate).

Ian
UBC, Med 3

[Terrance]

I dont know about this year, but historically I think I read it was from 1996-2000 they matched more in the first round first choice than any other school. But thats a good point if a lot people want to persue a less competitive specialty than they will obvoiusly have a high success rate, but I think UofT is known for churning out good specialists, but im not certain of that

thanks

[Ian Wong]

I couldn't confirm that, but I doubt that Toronto has taken the highest match rate over those 5 years. Just doesn't sound intuitive to me, given the impressive success of Ottawa and McMaster in that regard. In either event, match rates may tell you that a given class applied to less competitive programs, and therefore had a higher match rate percentage.

In an extreme example, if one school matches all 100 of its graduates into primary care specialties (eg. Family Medicine, Internal Medicine) which are fairly plentiful, and another school matches 50 people into Ophthalmology, Plastic Surgery, Dermatology, and Urology, and the other 50 people didn't match, I'd still say that School 2 was more competitive in the match than School 1, despite only having a 50% match rate.

Anyway, here's a link for the 2001 match rate:
www.carms.ca/stats/mSurvey2001/5_pg_8.htm (http://www.carms.ca/stats/mSurvey2001/5_pg_8.htm)

Ottawa led with a match rate of 92%, McMaster was second with 89%, and Toronto was lumped in with a number of other schools in the 81-83% range.

Ian
UBC, Med 3

[brandonite]

Well, I've been following for a while now, but haven't posted anything, partially because I have been trying to make up my own mind about this.

I've been to the school now four times. I've been very impressed with the students. The facilities are generally very good, and the faculty that I have talked to have been very helpful. All of that makes Manitoba a great program, at least in my opinion.

But I have been less than thrilled with the administration, both of the medical school and of the graduate school. I am an MD/PhD applicant. There is supposedly a program in development, but nobody seems able to tell me about the program or how to get into it. Nobody seems to respond to my emails, apart from one great professor who has been very helpful. It just sends of this bad aura and image that really bothers me. I know most of those things are little problems, but the little things can be very important.

But, I haven't given up on Manitoba yet. I'll be there in the fall doing a year of PhD work before I begin my MD/PhD, due to some really nice graduate scholarships I've received. I'm hoping that my prior faith in Manitoba will be rehabilitated over the course of the next year...

[Zack2006]

Whenever comparing things, such as schools, there are a variety of objective and subjective factors that must be examined. Maxell has stated that his/her experience as a grad student of UM has been diappointing thus far. This is a perfectly valid subjective impression. However, I am troubled that someone who is not a medical student would pass judgement on the quality of the school as a whole. How cohesive is the class? Do you enjoy your clinical profs? Do you like the way the curriculum is structured? These are relevant questions that Maxell is simply unable to offer an opinion on.

That said, as far as objective factors go (facilities, funding, prof:student ratio, etc.) UM rates well on any scale you might wish to use. So what is at the root of this poor impression of UM?

A poor opinion of a school based upon a bad experience with a cranky research prof *gasp* is both disappointing and irresponsible. There may, of course, be other valid reasons that may be presented to back up the claim that UM is not up to par, however, Maxell is either unwilling or unable to offer such. I certainly put no stock in the nebulous phrase "lacking in standards". What does this mean? It could mean anything from poor match results to the sticky buns in the coffee shop aren't fresh. Who knows? Perhaps Maxell will feel compelled to clarify.

[missing Manitoba]

Well, the poor quality is definitely NOT in the sticky buns. As a patient, I frequented the little coffee shop at HSC, and its baking was terrific. Now, the hospital cafeteria food, on the other hand... :x

Brandonite,
Are they still not responding to emails? Which PhD program are you heading for? Biophysics? I'm sorry the MD/PhD program is so disorganized. :(

Zack2006,
Although I do think the opinions of a former prof are relevant, my views are similar to yours. As an applicant interested primarily in clinical medicine, I'm not looking for a school with a high volume of research output or a strong grad/undergrad reputation. Instead, I'm looking at the more intangible factors like cohesiveness and atmosphere. Are you applying this year?

Terr(e/a)nce,
Not to worry -- missing Manitoba's not my real name, either. ;) As far as the negative opinions of your father's CURRENT students, I'm unsure of their validity. After all, although they could attest to its reputation, as med students at another university, they have, one would assume, never attended the U of M med school and therefore couldn't legitimately or fairly comment on its quality . Also, I believe the U of M administration/faculty have been working for the past few years to improve and update their teaching program, so the opinions you're hearing might not be in keeping with the current program, depending on when your father left. That said, as a current applicant, it's definitely interesting to read another perspective on things. :)

[cricketstix]

Hi brandonite,

I'm in a similar position to the one you're in with respect to application into the MD/PhD program. Like you, I can't find anyone at the U of M who can give me any answers. Could you please let me know who has been able to give you a hand with that? If you like, you can use my e-mail address.

Thanks

[JSS02]

Sorry to butt in here, Ian, but are those match stats reasonably similar from year to year? I was just wondering why McGill had such a low (though I guess it might not be statistically significant) match rate compared to most other Canadian schools...

[Ian Wong]

Don't know. It would vary a bit with each class, depending on if that particular class was more oriented in one direction or another. A few years back, one of the UBC classes had 8-9 people ranking Plastic Surgery as their #1 choice. Clearly, the majority of these people did not match into that specialty, but instead went unmatched or into a backup specialty, and that drives your match rate down.

It doesn't mean that your school is poor; could mean nothing more than that a specific class wanted lots of tough specialties.

Ian
UBC, Med 3

[ManitobaMed]

As you can see, I've deleted some posts. Hopefully, this will keep things from deteriorating further. :\

[brandonite]

Unfortunately, some of the hoops that this school makes us all jump through leave some of us in slightly less than friendly moods. ;)

But good call ManitobaMed. As the Chinese proverb goes, "may you live in interesting times"... ;)

[Frankie]

Hey Brondonite...are you Chinese? Or speak Chinese? That's so cool..

[brandonite]

Nope. :) I'm about as white as you can get - blond haired, blue eyes, and I wear golf shirts a lot. ;) Ask ManitobaMed. I just happen to know a few lines that I can quote to make myself appear intelligent. ;)

[maxell]

Thank you!

{edit}
Just aside, I would like to mention everyone should feel free to post whatever ideas or opinions he or she has without fear of personal attack. Fortunately, this site is not run by a a single individual that compels us to hide our true feelings or base all our comments on "fact" and concrete evidence.

I feel that the true purpose of this section of the board as a forum for students and applicants has been obscured by some extremely ugly comments - including some which I made myself. I do however believe that no one should monopolize a topic and try to trivialize another person's comments - let us respect one another, and if something does not appeal to us, let is pass or post something that states the contrary.

[ManitobaMed]

Yup, he's pretty white... :) Cuando yo quiero parecer mas inteligente, escribo en otros idiomas. 8o

[maxell]

It is interesting to note that through out all this discourse with Mr Zack, which fortunately has been deleted, not once has he presented evidence of why the UM medical school is such a great place to be at, although he constantly demands that I present evidence when stating the contrary. He assumes by default the UM a great place to be at - if it ain't bad, it sure must be good. Since he himself stated that he is neither a student nor a "UM Staffer" (haha), how does he know this place is such a great one to be at?

I respect the judgements of fellow students who can give a balanced view and recognize that no one place is perfect in all respects. Manitoba may be a great place to go to, but you don't convince people by using faulty logic and lengthly diatribes. Why don't we start a post where people can state what makes the province and the university unique in this country, and what makes the UM shine compared to other places? E.g. missing Manitoba, what did you miss so much about your home province, and why are you so happy to come back? What about OOP candidates - why did you choose MB (if you had the choice of elsewhere)? Maybe you can enlighten me - I'm really interested.

It's precisely those people, who are so bigoted and cannot tolerate any discussion that contravenes their own beliefs, whom I am attempting to avoid. These people, through their one-sided views and rude comments do a disservice to the cause they are trying to promote.

[sazzafrazz]

From my experience as a med I in the 2001-2002 season...

i suppose it depends on what everyone is looking for however I'll list things that made my first year great.

1. 87 new friends, any of which would give me the shirt off of their back as I would for them, and none of which that I could even fathom disliking in any sense of the word. Manitoba knows how to pick a cohesive, synergistic group of generous medical students.

2. Outstanding lecturers. Every lecture is given by a leader in the specific field that they work in. It makes for a lot of professors, but you always get the best.
One example of hundreds would be that community medicine was taught by the chief medical officer for Winnipeg and surrounding areas. He was phenomenol!

3. Our curriculum is broken into many small group sessions that you can gain an emense amount of understanding and knowledge from if you go prepared. Small groups for the most part are 6-8 students to 1 professor and can go up to a max of about 12. For example, EKG tutorials are all run by Cardiologists or Cardiac surgeons. NOT emergency, family med, PHD...BlahBlahBlah. In these sessions regardless of the subject you get free access to 100s of specialists literally. You can grill them, go for coffee with them, ask them about their job or anything else, make arrangements to do early exposures with them,.... they always accept taking on students to teach(I have not been turned down once! in fact I have always been met with great enthusiasm) I just finished the most amazing series of emergency exposures. The doctor I was with was fantastic, there was also a first year med resident(from MB) that was just starting his residency who was equally great. They made me feel super comfortable, challenged me with some questions that I was able to answer and felt great about, allowed me to go in and examine the patient on my own or with them leading or watching. I loved every second of it. This experience could be applied to all of the exposures I have gone on. I've done cardiology (and surgery - amazing to see a beating heart), general surgery, plastic surgery, emergency, family med, respirology, neurology, obs/gyne, pediatric emerg, and a couple of others.

4. The school so far will sponser students who want to attend any conference that has been in the city and has sponsered some out of conferences as well. I've attended quite a few.

5. BSc (med) program for Bachelor applicants. Gives lots of different types of experiences reasearching anything from myocyte apoptosis to psychosocial indicators for successful lung transplantation to delivering babies, all of which are PAID with two weeks holidays. You graduate from med school with an extra degree under your belt.

6. There are interest groups usually run by the upper year classes or some of the actual surgeons, etc. These groups give you access to information and people in areas that your interested in as well as training seminars, for example.
I learned a few different knots already in a seminar run by several surgeons. They set up multiple stations and had specimens that we could practice stitching up or various different types of techniques and closures to try.

7. We have the intramural sports teams. VB, Basketball, soccor, ultimate, salsa dancing classes, + many others.

8. super fantastic block parties the night of our exams after each block. they're fun!

9. we have all four seasons, YEAH! the winter is great for studying! as well as snowmobiling, cross country skiing, snow-pitch (soft ball in the winter - lots of fun), toboganning, etc, etc, etc. Spring and Fall are beautiful and summer is awesome. Manitoba has one of the world's top 10 beaches if you can believe that, 3 miles of white sand on one of our largest freshwater lakes. It's unique because all of the other top 40 ranked beaches are on the ocean - and so you swallow a lot of salt water when your in the water.

10. In defense of the administration, they are awesome. They are not there to cater only to incoming medical students that they constantly get phone call from (remember they interview over 200 people). They all know all of the medical students by name. Once your in they work their ASS off for you with any request that you make.

11. The gross lab work was great. They had lots of teachers available. We had 4 people to a cadavre, lots of room to see and get your hands in there. All of the anatomists are available at any time for private/small group tutorial or quiz sessions.

12. Facilities are awesome, gym with tonnes of weights and aerobic equipment, aerobic classes, pilates, etc, etc, etc, goes on and on. They are building a new recreation area for the students this summer

13. Lecture halls are outfitted so that you can plug in your laptop at any seat in the theatre.

14. Medical ethics is a class that many would skip as we are not examined on it really. We had full attendance because the doc teaching the ethics was just out of this world great! Small groups for ethics was run by Philosophy graduates. They made all of the issues very challenging and some of them could literally get you all confused on what you were so sure of prior to meeting them. I was great!

15. Respirology - taught phenomenally in the lecture hall. Dr. Bshouty is a good lecturer, his notes are comprehensive, the small group leaders were terrific.

16. Cardiology - awesome block

OK I could go on for another hour but I've got somewhere to be.

17. Very low cost of living!!!!!

saz

[Waitlistee]

Thanks sazzafrazz for defending U of M med school and providing such insights as to why it's a great school..they are very thoughtful :)
Hopefully I'll get the news soon...

[ManitobaMed]

Hey Saz,

Thanks for this great post! :) Hopefully, I'll be able to speak as clearly and specifically on the U of M med program a year from now.

For everyone,
My reasons for choosing the U of M -- and the province of Manitoba -- are pretty hard to explain, but I'll try.

Why I chose the U of M:
While the students at the other schools I visited had obviously formed friendships, the students at the U of M just seemed closer somehow. When I emailed some of the med Is prior to my interviews, each reply I received exuded a genuine happiness. The students seemed pleased not only with the med school program itself, but also with the so-called med school experience.

Ultimately, I wasn't looking for a school with a great reputation; having attended Queen's, a school that lives by and for its reputation, I honestly feel that reputation is a poor criterion by which to choose an educational environment and that good reps are often undeserved. Instead, I was looking for a school where I could be HAPPY for four years. "Happy" for me means learning in a non-competitive environment, participating in the non-medical activities I love, and interacting and exchanging knowledge with an array of caring, compassionate people. (I certainly don't mean to suggest, however, that the U of M is the only school that fulfills these criteria.)

Some other factors:
1. I fully expect medical school to present a number of struggles, both intellectual and emotional, and a supportive environment such as I sensed at the U of M is precisely what I'm looking for to counter these strains.

2. Some of my own doctors, plus other doctors I've seen/met, are employed by the U of M. Of those who are, most are excellent physicians, and I would be privileged to learn from them.

3. I'm considering oncology, and, from the excellent staff down to the brand-spanking-new building at HSC, CancerCare Manitoba is *awesome*.

4. I'm also considering family medicine, and this seems to be a U of M strength. For summer experience, there are two major programs, one in rural med and the other in northern med.

5. The BSc (med) program also seems like a great summer option.

6. Decent tuition.

7. I miss my family. (This goes much higher on the list, actually.)

8. I love Manitoba, and that's where the University of Manitoba is.

On why I love Manitoba:
1. THE PEOPLE. Manitobans are generally a friendly, laid-back bunch who care about their neighbours and have great community spirit.

2. It's a beautiful province in a low-key kind of way. We normally have bright blue skies during the day, bright white stars at night, plus the northern lights appearing periodically throughout the year. We have rolling hills, river valleys, and marshes that are bright green (well, except the water, which looks very much like water) in the summer and pure white in the winter -- minus el nino, that is. There are plenty of lakes and rivers and an ocean. There are farms. There's tundra. There's shield. There's a statue in Flin Flon. Why, even Winnipeg has some pretty cool locations. :)

3. It's fun. There are a lot of festivals (e.g. festival du voyageur, Folklorama, Fringe festival, Ukranian festival, Icelandic festival, etc.). Winnipeg has great culture and great restaurants. Native culture. Sports events. There are a lot of outdoor activities available in our parks and nature areas. There's snow.

4. Invigorating conversation on the weather. *No one* discusses weather as we Manitobans do -- probably cuz we get so much of it.

[brandonite]

I would not go to any other school in Canada. U of M has great people, both students and faculty, there is some amazing research going on, you get a great education, and Winnipeg is a city that is very unfairly maligned, in my opinion.

From the perspective of a future MD/PhD, and a fairly hard-core researcher, I think that Winnipeg has a ton to offer. I would probably have had a decent shot at getting into places like Toronto, but I really saw no need to even apply. You have the Virology lab like two blocks from the medical school, and you have the National Research Council about a five minute walk away. Both of those places are truly world leaders. In addition, the cardiac research program through the Physiology department in the medical school (I'm interested in cardiology) is really a world leader. They are just building a new research lab at the St. B. that will only increase the research potential. Put all of these together, and I think Winnipeg is well positioned to become the place in Canada for medical research, or at least the place outside Toronto.

Add it to all of the things that people have already said, and you get an idea about why I like the U of M so much. :)

I think that if there was just a ranking of medical schools done in Canada, the U of M would do fairly well. The problem is that most people tend to think of the Macleans survey, which of course, means that the 20,000 or whatever undergrads swamp out the 400 medical students. I think that is really holding the med school back...

[Jennifer Y]

Eh, you might want to have a look, I think that there is a ranking by MacLeans of just medical schools in Canada.

[brandonite]

Nope. There is not. There is a category of schools in the Macleans ranking for medical/doctoral schools, but those rank the entire school, not just the medical school.

[Curious Brian]

I own a hard copy of the Maclean's ranking so I can confidently tell you that there is no such thing in this world. I hope you were not referrring to the Medical/Doctoral university ranking...'cause that's for a rank of the universities with primary/extensive medical and other PhD programs. It's bizzare that the Memorial U of Newfoundland was not included with the bunch..although it does have a med school and a variety of advanced degree programs. I guess it was probably because their PhD programs are in some way asininely judged lacking according to Maclean's. But I certainly wouldn't think so. Well...it's no doubt an insult to the university although it did get ranked in another category. The Maclean's rankings are seriously wanting because they will never be able to rank schools like the USnews world report. This maybe an inherent shortcoming due to the higher educational system in Canada. We just don't have any Podunk universities or Hollywood Upscale colleges. Do you how much can a ranking mean with just 16 schools? If I ranked you and me and brandonite and ManitobaMed for some sort of thing. There's ought to be someone who would rank the last. But due to the sample size it'd just not be statistically significant to really mean anything. A great way to generate some sure-fire sale profits for Maclean's nonetheless. Just my $0.02

[Jennifer Y]

Sorry, misread the rankings and so did not apply to UofMan or UofSask when I saw that they were at very bottom of the rankings:)

[V]

I gotta add that U of M is great. I was an OOP applicant and I was fortunately accepted this year. The only reason i chose not to attend, was because I was offered acceptance to schools closer to me. Family is huge to me, so leaving them was kinda hard.

It is a GREAT school, with GREAT people and GREAT faculty. If you have the shot, go for it. I'm sure you will love it.

Go U of M Go.

Cheers,
V