So, You're a Premed Passionate about Medicine?

[Alai]

Here's a serious question, not a troll post, and it's a question I've asked myself for a long time.

But how can you really know if you are passionate about medicine?

Volunteering, reading books and watching documentaries, listening to anecdotes, being addicted to medical TV shows, can only get you so far. The actual experience of studying medicine, practicing medicine, of being a doctor and living through it, will almost definitely be different for everyone and more importantly, not in a way that is predictable.

So when I hear people aspiring to be doctors give me a long speech about how passionate they are about medicine as a profession, I am skeptical by default.

So, you want to help people? That does not logically lead to medicine, because you have to add a lot to that equation, narrow it down a lot more, before you will ever end up with medicine. You could be any number of professions which all help people and are all science-based, that are not medicine.

Even more puzzling are people who already know what Specialty they would want to do 10 years down the line. This girl in my high school told me she wanted to be a cardiologist specializing in bypass surgeries, WHAT? How do you know? The obvious answer is that you don't know. That all your research on the profession of medicine, all your viewing the action from the sidelines as a volunteer, will be worth very little when you are really exposed to medicine, to being a doctor, to the responsibility, not the perceived responsibility.

Yes, you are more likely than the average person to ultimately enjoy medicine, but you shouldn't delude yourself into believing that you want to be a doctor because you know you will like it.

TL;DR: You don't really know what medicine is like, you only think you know.

Thoughts? Criticisms?

[dazzle]

Yes, I find the whole "I wear medical lab coats in my freetime reason pretty unsatisfying," although I would think one so passionate could make a good doctor, just like the kid fantasizing about being a pilot for 25 years before getting his license could make a great one. This type of passion is uncommon though and that's why I think we could focus on other cases.

I think people should see choosing medicine as it having the most intersection with their interests and aptitudes. Simply wanting to help people is not enough, as you said Mr. OP. If the only way you can think of to help people is to be their doctor you haven't been out of the house or hospital much.

There is one type of case that I really don't understand: it is those who say that were they not chosen for medicine, they would engage in another profession as long as it is in the health field. I am the total opposite, my package of interests and aptitudes would probably lead me to being a professor or artist or politician or whatever, before a nurse or technician, were I not to be accepted in medicine.

[Comeon]

The things you have mentioned in your posts are what I have always believed in. The worst answers that I gave during interviews were to the question "Why medicine?" because I knew that my real reasons would not be seen in a positive light - I probably seemed like I was trying to dodge the question. Although it took me 2 cycles and a lot of tears to get admitted to medical school, I think that it is probably one of the easier routes of getting somewhere post-undergrad. I have no idea whether I will like medicine or not, but I have realized that as long as I am doing something that is challenging, has some relevance to what I have done in the past (studied etc.) and I do reasonably well - I will not be unhappy (more likely to be happy).

[future_doc]

The system and process works and produces licenced, competent physicians, and in the end, that is all that matters - for society and for the individuals who who are accepted into med school and become physicians.

[Alai]

The system and process works and produces licenced, competent physicians, and in the end, that is all that matters - for society and for the individuals who who are accepted into med school and become physicians.

I'm not sure how that's relevant to this thread, but I'll pretend it is. I think that's an awfully complacent view. The question should never be whether the process works, but rather if there is room for improvement, though some would contest even the the prior.

[future_doc]

I'm not sure how that's relevant to this thread, but I'll pretend it is. I think that's an awfully complacent view. The question should never be whether the process works, but rather if there is room for improvement, though some would contest even the the prior.

It's relevant b/c society represented by med schools selects from amongst those who seek to become doctors individuals who go forward and become licenced physicians.

There is always room for improvement in any system or process, and there are constant improvements or changes in the process, e.g., CaSPER for MAC, no Essay for U/T being some recent examples of tinkering.

As to what turns us each on as individuals to even seek to become physicians, we are each unoique and select and strive for our own goals that are hopefully realistic and for which we have the requisite aptitudes and attitudes. Many of us change our mind, our weeded out or give up after trying or change our mind.

Noboy really knows what is involved in any undertaking except when you get there - and even then, you may not truly understand what you have let yourself into. However, does it really matter to society if you are trained and competent? And does it really matter to the individual who can find so many areas of interest in 3rd and 4th year?

Bottom line, it is extremely rare for someone to walk away while in med school or after obtaining a medical degree. So, I repeat - it all works for society; and for the individual.

And, if you care to suggest improvements, and they are implemented, that's great too. :)

[PhoenixFlare500]

The system and process works and produces licenced, competent physicians, and in the end, that is all that matters - for society and for the individuals who who are accepted into med school and become physicians.
Problems with this statement:

Society: Some physicians could get in just based on this false passion, get through med, become docs, and find out they hate it. Some will quit. This means that there will be one less doctor available to the general public (and they're already in short supply). Physicians who don't quit but aren't passionate may do their job ineffectively, not trying hard enough to figure out diagnoses or treatment options for their patients, compromising their care.

Individual: If the individual finds out they hate medicine, you think all that matters to them is that they got into med school and became a physician anyways? Answer should be obvious.

Maybe you don't need to be overly passionate to be a good doctor, but I think you still need to have some, in whatever form of motivation you have, to effectively care for your patients.

[dazzle]

The system and process works and produces licenced, competent physicians, and in the end, that is all that matters - for society and for the individuals who who are accepted into med school and become physicians.

As if being a good doctor depends simply on being licensed...

[future_doc]

Problems with this statement:

Society: Some physicians could get in just based on this false passion, get through med, become docs, and find out they hate it. Some will quit. This means that there will be one less doctor available to the general public (and they're already in short supply). Physicians who don't quit but aren't passionate may do their job ineffectively, not trying hard enough to figure out diagnoses or treatment options for their patients, compromising their care.

This is conjecture and not evidence. You say, "Some will quit." There must ber statistics as to how many actually leave medicine. :confused: I doubt there are many but this too is conjecture.

Individual: If the individual finds out they hate medicine, you think all that matters to them is that they got into med school and became a physician anyways? Answer should be obvious.

Maybe you don't need to be overly passionate to be a good doctor, but I think you still need to have some, in whatever form of motivation you have, to effectively care for your patients.

For someone to get through the system comparable to a salmon swimming upstream and successfully going through all those obstacles to span and suddenly discover he/she is not a salmon is incredible. Having gotten into and through med school, through licencing and into practice, you shall have found your niche and now are making your contribution to society as a physician or in medical administration, etc. I cannot see that many if any discover they hate medicine and want to be a lawyer, but if that happens, his/her legal practice will likely be involved in defending or going after physicians in malpractice suits. The system works for society and the individual and is an improvement over what exists in North Korea, Syria, Iran, Russia or most other countries.

[PhoenixFlare500]

This is conjecture and not evidence. You say, "Some will quit." There must ber statistics as to how many actually leave medicine. :confused: I doubt there are many but this too is conjecture.

You can't deny that some people will quit medicine. I don't see how you can reduce my statement to conjecture.


For someone to get through the system comparable to a salmon swimming upstream and successfully going through all those obstacles to span and suddenly discover he/she is not a salmon is incredible. Having gotten into and through med school, through licencing and into practice, you shall have found your niche and now are making your contribution to society as a physician or in medical administration, etc. I cannot see that many if any discover they hate medicine and want to be a lawyer, but if that happens, his/her legal practice will likely be involved in defending or going after physicians in malpractice suits. The system works for society and the individual and is an improvement over what exists in North Korea, Syria, Iran, Russia or most other countries.

What if I discover that I want to be a commercial pilot? What if I find passion in painting and dancing Irish jigs? Am I only supposed to paint hospitals and health care professionals? It's possible that you'll discover you really love something else a decade from now that has nothing to do with medicine.

[Alai]

Bottom line, it is extremely rare for someone to walk away while in med school or after obtaining a medical degree. So, I repeat - it all works for society; and for the individual.
And, if you care to suggest improvements, and they are implemented, that's great too.

I'm sorry, I still don't see how your initial comment was relevant to my initial post, which was about the question of being passionate about medicine before experiencing it. I feel like you're going on a huge tangent. I said nothing about criticising the selection process, only about the individual motivation for becoming a doctor that people have. You eventually did go on to talk about something relevant here, but it doesn't have anything to do with the 'bottom line'.

[future_doc]

As if being a good doctor depends simply on being licensed...

It certainly helps. :p

[future_doc]

[QUOTE=future_doc;738754]This is conjecture and not evidence. You say, "Some will quit." There must ber statistics as to how many actually leave medicine. :confused: I doubt there are many but this too is conjecture.
[quote]
You can't deny that some people will quit medicine. I don't see how you can reduce my statement to conjecture.



What if I discover that I want to be a commercial pilot? What if I find passion in painting and dancing Irish jigs? Am I only supposed to paint hospitals and health care professionals? It's possible that you'll discover you really love something else a decade from now that has nothing to do with medicine.

Life offers no guarantees other than death and taxes.

[medhopefuls2016]

Here's a serious question, not a troll post, and it's a question I've asked myself for a long time.

But how can you really know if you are passionate about medicine?

Volunteering, reading books and watching documentaries, listening to anecdotes, being addicted to medical TV shows, can only get you so far. The actual experience of studying medicine, practicing medicine, of being a doctor and living through it, will almost definitely be different for everyone and more importantly, not in a way that is predictable.

So when I hear people aspiring to be doctors give me a long speech about how passionate they are about medicine as a profession, I am skeptical by default.

So, you want to help people? That does not logically lead to medicine, because you have to add a lot to that equation, narrow it down a lot more, before you will ever end up with medicine. You could be any number of professions which all help people and are all science-based, that are not medicine.

Even more puzzling are people who already know what Specialty they would want to do 10 years down the line. This girl in my high school told me she wanted to be a cardiologist specializing in bypass surgeries, WHAT? How do you know? The obvious answer is that you don't know. That all your research on the profession of medicine, all your viewing the action from the sidelines as a volunteer, will be worth very little when you are really exposed to medicine, to being a doctor, to the responsibility, not the perceived responsibility.

Yes, you are more likely than the average person to ultimately enjoy medicine, but you shouldn't delude yourself into believing that you want to be a doctor because you know you will like it.

TL;DR: You don't really know what medicine is like, you only think you know.

Thoughts? Criticisms?


Absolutely agree. There is no way for you to know what medicine is until you go into it. I hate it when a premed comes up to me and gives me the whole jazz about when he/she is passionate about healthcare and want to help people. In fact, I dislike the question "why medicine" during interviews. You don't need a "heartfelt" reason for medicine to become a good doctor. A good doctor is one that is capable. Quite frankly, as a brilliant friend of mine said (going to a top 10 u.s med this year), "I go into medical school because I can, and that's about it."


A) You can go into medicine and decide not to do clinical care. I am personally much more interested about the management/policy side of medicine than about clinical care.
B) If you have this strong desire to help people, well why not just volunteer?
C) If you love science that much, why not go into grad school and do research?

[Lactic Folly]

This discussion rings a faint bell from the past.

No, no one can truly know what medicine is like until they are immersed in it. But this holds true for any other career as well.

If you've determined that medicine seems to be the best fit for you at this point, then from a practical standpoint, it is relatively advantageous to convey a sense of passion and knowledgeability about the career you are seeking to enter.

[Legion]

This discussion rings a faint bell from the past.

No, no one can truly know what medicine is like until they are immersed in it. But this holds true for any other career as well.

If you've determined that medicine seems to be the best fit for you at this point, then from a practical standpoint, it is relatively advantageous to convey a sense of passion and knowledgeability about the career you are seeking to enter.

+1

I don't even see the point of this thread. Obviously you won't know what anything is like unless you get exposure. If you say you are passionate about medicine for whatever reason (hospital volunteering, shadowing, etc) good for you. As Lactic said, it could be advantageous if anything.

I actually do agree with f_d as the end result is what is more important.

[frozenarbitor]

Maybe that's why a lot of US schools really want to see some shadowing experience in applicants' resume. Shadowing a doctor certainly gives you a taste of what medicine is like. And from that, you can get a vague idea of whether you'll like it or not.

Medicine is generally a good career to go into because it's so diverse. There are so many different specialties. You can do clinical work if you like people. You can do pure research if you love that stuff. You can do pure admin if you like leadership. It pays well and it's stable. You do make a difference to someone's life at the end of the day if you try your best. You feel good as a result of self-fulfillment.

[Alai]

Medicine is generally a good career to go into because it's so diverse. There are so many different specialties. You can do clinical work if you like people. You can do pure research if you love that stuff. You can do pure admin if you like leadership. It pays well and it's stable. You do make a difference to someone's life at the end of the day if you try your best. You feel good as a result of self-fulfillment.
Inspiring post!

[future_doc]

Yes. :) And it does not answer your unanswerable question. ;)

[medhopeful.com]

This discussion rings a faint bell from the past.

No, no one can truly know what medicine is like until they are immersed in it. But this holds true for any other career as well.

If you've determined that medicine seems to be the best fit for you at this point, then from a practical standpoint, it is relatively advantageous to convey a sense of passion and knowledgeability about the career you are seeking to enter.

+1

That said, for many other professions, it's possible to do at least small internships in those industries to get a taste of the profession (e.g. co-op).

The barrier to entry to medicine is huge, and by the time you can do any sort of "internship" (e.g. clerkship), it's not really feasible for many people to quit even if they realize it's not for them.

[Robin Hood]

This discussion rings a faint bell from the past.

No, no one can truly know what medicine is like until they are immersed in it. But this holds true for any other career as well.

If you've determined that medicine seems to be the best fit for you at this point, then from a practical standpoint, it is relatively advantageous to convey a sense of passion and knowledgeability about the career you are seeking to enter.

+1

You can't know about all professions before getting into them. So you have to look at the careers that match the most your interests. You can't sit at home because you don't know which career to do, or change majors/programs every year.

[holiday1001]

personally I think two main reasons are: you'd enjoy it, and you'd (as far as you can tell) be good at it.

passion might give you a means to enjoy it or be good at it. or desire for power/money. or being challenged. but in the end, it will form the basis to satisfy those two reasons.

this holds true for any career in medicine. after all, medicine is just one of many careers isn't it?

[Alai]

I'm really not questioning the practical benefits of having a career in mind, I just question the idea of being passionate about something when you're not sure what it's going to be. It's analogous to setting yourself up for an arranged marriage: yes, it's a good thing if you're optimistic and excited, but it doesn't really make sense to say you're in love with you've never met before.

[future_doc]

I was very passionate about a career in med while in premed and was completely sure of my decision. Arranged marriages statistically do much better than other marriages in terms of stability and longevity.

[Alai]

I was very passionate about a career in med while in premed and was completely sure of my decision. Arranged marriages statistically do much better than other marriages in terms of stability and longevity.


This allows me to extend the analogy: most arranged marriages last longer due to the circumstances and cultures in which they are carried out—namely familial pressures, economic pressures, and so on, and many of them end up as abusive relationships, but you'd be right to call them 'stable'.

This can also be easily extended to someone who, as medhopeful.com put it, got into medicine but now finds that it's too late for them to quit, so they carry on with a job they basically hate (with a stable income, no doubt).

[future_doc]

This allows me to extend the analogy: most arranged marriages last longer due to the circumstances and cultures in which they are carried out—namely familial pressures, economic pressures, and so on, and many of them end up as abusive relationships, but you'd be right to call them 'stable'.

We will agree to disagree upon your so-called (and unsubstantiated) alleged facts.


This can also be easily extended to someone who, as medhopeful.com put it, got into medicine but now finds that it's too late for them to quit, so they carry on with a job they basically hate (with a stable income, no doubt).

I'm sure this hypothetical person does exist and would have left med rather than do a job they hate.

[TheBoss]

I'm sure this hypothetical person does exist and would have left med rather than do a job they hate.

I'd wager that many people stick with jobs they dislike and although careers in med are generally quite good, I'd also wager that someone who finds they dislike med after starting to actually experience it (i.e. after clerkship) would be even less likely to leave because of the barriers to exit (lack of perceived alternatives, financial debt)

[donnadee]

lol i really dont see a point in this thread...theres no harm in being passionate about something and wanting to do something before actually doing it...being passionate is a key motivator to success and means to an end...i am willing to bet that a person who's not passionate about medicine and enters into med school because he/she is forced by family or economic concerns is more likely to not want to pursue it once they're in the field than a pre-med who has their reasons (whatever they maybe) and enters into medicine...
its also not good to hold a biased view of someone who has offered you their reasons for why they want to pursue a certain profession
to the op, i think a lot of your bias with regards to the girl who mentioned she wants to be a bypass surgeon develops from the thought process of how dare someone wish for something so competitive without ever being able to gain enough knowledge on it as a pre-med..this in turn seems to stem from a resentment that people less wanting to be doctors are currently in practice...by that understanding its safe to argue that no pre-med who becomes a doctor will ever have enough knowledge of what its like to be in the shoes of a doctor before they actually are..therefore trying to focus on "improving" the process would be based on the premise that no premed actually knows they will actually like being a doctor so the only other way to judge whether they will or wont like is based on their perceived liking...that the girl is so vocational about her perceived liking will, as others have said, do her more good than harm....she really knows shes passionate because she talks about it and feels confident in explaining others that she wants it...whether at the end as a doctor she thinks its not stimulating enough cant and should not be held against her

[malkynn]

You can't really know what anything is like being doing it...by definition.

It's fair to criticize that pre-meds can't really know what they're desperately trying to throw themselves into, but like any insanely challenging path, it takes passion for an abstract idea to keep going.

Plenty of people fight tooth and nail and sacrifice everything to try and become famous in film or music and they sure as hell don't know what it's like to live that way, yet they're still passionate about it.

A lot of premeds can be a little heavy-handed a a bit naive in the way they talk about med, but the often ego-crushing process can understandably make them a little loopy sometimes...and hyper critical of one another ;)

[thatonekid]

This discussion rings a faint bell from the past.

No, no one can truly know what medicine is like until they are immersed in it. But this holds true for any other career as well.

If you've determined that medicine seems to be the best fit for you at this point, then from a practical standpoint, it is relatively advantageous to convey a sense of passion and knowledgeability about the career you are seeking to enter.This.

You can try to get exposure to medicine as a 'pre-med', but the reality is that it's unrealistic to have a solid understanding of what medicine is like until you're in the field.

[medhopeful64]

lol i really dont see a point in this thread...theres no harm in being passionate about something and wanting to do something before actually doing it...being passionate is a key motivator to success and means to an end...i am willing to bet that a person who's not passionate about medicine and enters into med school because he/she is forced by family or economic concerns is more likely to not want to pursue it once they're in the field than a pre-med who has their reasons (whatever they maybe) and enters into medicine...
its also not good to hold a biased view of someone who has offered you their reasons for why they want to pursue a certain profession
to the op, i think a lot of your bias with regards to the girl who mentioned she wants to be a bypass surgeon develops from the thought process of how dare someone wish for something so competitive without ever being able to gain enough knowledge on it as a pre-med..this in turn seems to stem from a resentment that people less wanting to be doctors are currently in practice...by that understanding its safe to argue that no pre-med who becomes a doctor will ever have enough knowledge of what its like to be in the shoes of a doctor before they actually are..therefore trying to focus on "improving" the process would be based on the premise that no premed actually knows they will actually like being a doctor so the only other way to judge whether they will or wont like is based on their perceived liking...that the girl is so vocational about her perceived liking will, as others have said, do her more good than harm....she really knows shes passionate because she talks about it and feels confident in explaining others that she wants it...whether at the end as a doctor she thinks its not stimulating enough cant and should not be held against her

While we are on the topic of not being able to know what medicine is like before actually getting into med (and I agree with that), what about premeds who have parents that are physicians? I'm sure they have a better understanding about what medicine is like vs premeds who do not have physician parents. Thoughts?

[captcapt]

While we are on the topic of not being able to know what medicine is like before actually getting into med (and I agree with that), what about premeds who have parents that are physicians? I'm sure they have a better understanding about what medicine is like vs premeds who do not have physician parents. Thoughts?
i would tend to agree , although i think the insight would be based more on the impact being a physician has on your family/social life and less on the actually clinical work

[BonIver]

I don't think there is a single person on the planet that truly know what they are getting into when it comes to medicine, dentisty, or any other profession for that matter. Yes medicine has a lot of barriers to entry and yes it is a greaet waste of public resources if you decide that it is not for you after all of the training and schooling. However, it is impossible to truly experience something without doing it!

By asking the question, why are you passionate about medicine or why do you want to be a doctor? you are just asking, hey lets see who can spew the most bull ****! You shouldnt have to be a poet to be a doctor

[Alai]

My father is a doctor, and I may have a better idea of a doctors lifestyle, I'm far, far from really understanding what he's been through.

[Robin Hood]

My father is a doctor, and I may have a better idea of a doctors lifestyle, I'm far, far from really understanding what he's been through.

So, what do you suggest? To not apply unless it's for the money and prestige?

[Alai]

So, what do you suggest? To not apply unless it's for the money and prestige?

You're inferring a little too much. I suggest only honest acknowledgement of the fact that you can't be 'passionate about being a doctor' and also rationally defend it, unless you bring in practical considerations.

'Helping people', 'liking science', 'liking the money', 'liking the hospital environment', to me, these ARE valid things to be passionate about because you already fully understand what this means and their implications. To say that 'I'm passionate about medicine and it's all I ever see myself doing" is an emotional statement that's backed by NOTHING but your feelings. Sure, your feelings here might have some worth, but they aren't born out of anything logical, or anything I (or the adcoms) have to respect or trust.

So, yes, if someone told me they were into medicine for money, vs. someone else told me they were into medicine because they feel like it's their unalterable destiny, I will take one more seriously than the other.

[future_doc]

That is your entitlement even though you are incorrect. Passion is a very strong force and motivator that you underestimate and refuse to recognize.

I was companion-helper to a senior wheelchair diabetic on dialysis, failed organ transplant, and with EMS continuously saving her life and remained with her until her death. Seeing her dignity and courage, I appreciated the importance of medicine, hopefulness, lifestyle adjustment, coping skills and the impact of others influencing the quality of life. I felt frustration of my limitations to help, and joined EMS, responding to 911 calls. Having close to 1,000 EMS hours, I took control of the calls, taught trainees, and without discomfort, made ethical decisions, taking timely action, coping collaboratively and appropriately to pre-hospital medical crisis management, seeking successful patient outcomes, continuously expanding my knowledge and skills. I had to learn to respect a DNR with cardiac arrest ignoring instinct, while building trust with patients.

My desire to be a physician came from my passion. And I took positive steps to determine what it was like within my capability. I feel that I knew what I was getting into because of my studies, my internships with patients and my volunteering. However, had I not been so fortunate with my volunteering, with less experience, I was sure what I wanted to do as my career. Others decide to study law and really don't have a clue what their practices will be like. It all starts with passion and those who go into medicine for the money should become investment bankers where it is all about money. Money is an important byproduct of being a physician but it is not a valid reason for anybody to enter the profession.

[donnadee]

to be honest, i think the OP is not passionate enough to understand what passion really feels like.

[Alai]

My desire to be a physician came from my passion. And I took positive steps to determine what it was like within my capability. I feel that I knew what I was getting into because of my studies, my internships with patients and my volunteering. However, had I not been so fortunate with my volunteering, with less experience, I was sure what I wanted to do as my career. Others decide to study law and really don't have a clue what their practices will be like. It all starts with passion and those who go into medicine for the money should become investment bankers where it is all about money. Money is an important byproduct of being a physician but it is not a valid reason for anybody to enter the profession.

Your experience, which seems highly representative of the medical profession, is not the norm, at all.

What I've bolded is the sort of statement I wouldn't consider worth much. You just happen to be lucky that having worked closely in EMS, you realised that your hypothetical passions were also your real passions, but this can't be taken for granted, can it?

So long as you're a good doctor, it's absolutely a valid reason. Any decision has tonnes, and tonnes of factors that (hopefully) all contribute to it. So, if you're telling me that your ONLY reason to want to be a doctor is your passion for medicine as a profession, and you haven't seriously considered any other practical outcomes of this decision, then you're not someone who should advise other people about their career choices because your advice could likely end up ruining their lives. That being said, I seriously doubt that that is the case, because surely you've thought about practical considerations in your decision, and if you have, then you basically agree with me that money is a valid reason (though not in isolation, but NOTHING is a good reason in isolation).


On an unrelated note, this forum should be renamed AdHominem101 or something.

[donnadee]

Your experience, which seems highly representative of the medical profession, is not the norm, at all.

What I've bolded is the sort of statement I wouldn't consider worth much. You just happen to be lucky that having worked closely in EMS, you realised that your hypothetical passions were also your real passions, but this can't be taken for granted, can it?

So long as you're a good doctor, it's absolutely a valid reason. Any decision has tonnes, and tonnes of factors that (hopefully) all contribute to it. So, if you're telling me that your ONLY reason to want to be a doctor is your passion for medicine as a profession, and you haven't seriously considered any other practical outcomes of this decision, then you're not someone who should advise other people about their career choices because your advice could likely end up ruining their lives. That being said, I seriously doubt that that is the case, because surely you've thought about practical considerations in your decision, and if you have, then you basically agree with me that money is a valid reason (though not in isolation, but NOTHING is a good reason in isolation).


On an unrelated note, this forum should be renamed AdHominem101 or something.

hey, so im not sure exactly what stage of your education you're at but futuredoc's experience is certainly not out of the norm for someone who has entered medicine..i'd recommend that if you're in university, join your on campus ems..i was a member of the campus ems and through them, was able to contribute to 400hrs of volunteering, closely experience what its like to be part of the ambulance team, and did witness a number of "out-of-ordinary" scenarios including patients going unconscious at the scene...without much effort on my part, i was able to secure a very informative volunteering position at a hospital where i was the person who interviewed patients for their medical history, took and recorded their vitals...this experience is as close as it gets for someone with an undergrad to observe the real job of a doctor i.e. how to talk to patients....
if you need any info on valuable pre-med experiences feel free to pm me...best of luck with your education.

[Alai]

hey, so im not sure exactly what stage of your education you're at but futuredoc's experience is certainly not out of the norm for someone who has entered medicine..i'd recommend that if you're in university, join your on campus ems..i was a member of the campus ems and through them, was able to contribute to 400hrs of volunteering, closely experience what its like to be part of the ambulance team, and did witness a number of "out-of-ordinary" scenarios including patients going unconscious at the scene...without much effort on my part, i was able to secure a very informative volunteering position at a hospital where i was the person who interviewed patients for their medical history, took and recorded their vitals...this experience is as close as it gets for someone with an undergrad to observe the real job of a doctor i.e. how to talk to patients....
if you need any info on valuable pre-med experiences feel free to pm me...best of luck with your education.

Thanks for the offer Donna. I currently work full-time at a hospital, so that aspect of it shouldn't be an issue, but I'll ask you for other advice if I need it.

Anyhow, it was fun discussing this, but I think I've gotten the answers I needed, so that'll be it from me.

[Morzan]

I agree w/ you OP, look at my thread if you get a chance, it's on the same topic.http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62754

I think people will always come up with politically correct ways to say why medicine is right for them. I think what initially attracts people to medicine is job security/income, etc... but they want to believe medicine is right for them for other "better" reasons, so with all the bias in the world they start producing reasons as to why it's the only career out there for them. Of course there exists a spectrum of people with or without bias in their reasoning, but i'd say the majority fall into the trap I described.

[holiday1001]

nothing to be ashamed of. it's an honourable, respectable career. if you're capable of doing it, then why not?

[frozenarbitor]

I think the concept of passion often comes with a bit of irrationality. Most passions come without understanding the subject throughly. For example, at the beginning stage of romantic relationships, the love is called passionate love because it is filled with excitement and unknown. Everything is new and thrilling.

Same applies to medicine. Premeds are passionate about medicine because, often times, they don't know the responsibilities and burdens associated with the career that come along with the financial, social, and emotional rewards. I assume quite a number of medical student clerks or residents after a long day filled with stress might find the "passion" they experienced during the orientation week at the beginning of medical school has reduced over the years. Physicians (especially surgeons) who get burnt out and decided to leave the career because of their demanding work schedule might find they have lost all their passion they used to have as a mint doctor. I think it's kind of analogous to having a divorce at the end of a marriage, losing your passion for your partner who you once were so madly in love with.

So I find nothing wrong with having passion for medicine for younger premeds who never experienced being a real doctor. In fact, I think it is better for young people to have an idealistic view of life (such as seeing medicine as a purely altruistic pursuit) instead of becoming jaded at an early age.

[questforstarfish]

People go into everything because of a lifelong or suddenly-realized passion. Countless people- teachers, police, pastors, writers, veterinarians, hockey players, and social workers- all go into their profession because of some sort of feeling that it's a "calling." They may not know exactly what's involved before doing it, but they go into it and adore it with all of their hearts. I LOVE helping people. I could be a counselor, a teacher, or any number of things, but none of them interest me for whatever reason. I LOVE anatomy, physiology, biology and the human body, they're incredibly fascinating and I'd love to work with those topics in my helping people. So why not be a nurse? I don't know. I feel like the more education and training I get, the more use I can be of to people. There are doctor shortages everywhere. So why not be a nurse practitioner, there's a shortage of nurses too and NP's have more education?

I really can't say. Clearly I'll need to figure it out before any med school interviews if they happen, but for now I can't explain it other than I feel like this is where I want to be and this is what I'm meant to do in life! :)

[muse87]

i had a lot of experience in the specialty i wanted, and like years of experience with the populations i'd encounter... i didn't know if i wanted any other specialty, but i knew for sure i'd at least like one thing, so that was enough... still feel an intense passion to not only approach said specialty medically but from a lobbying perspective and from a public health one... so i suppose im a cop out a bit... lol

[muse87]

i think idealism and realism has to come into a balance though, i knew i was going into an uphill battle from the start... so a bit jaded, but definitely somewhat idealistic in my passion


So I find nothing wrong with having passion for medicine for younger premeds who never experienced being a real doctor. In fact, I think it is better for young people to have an idealistic view of life (such as seeing medicine as a purely altruistic pursuit) instead of becoming jaded at an early age.

[muse87]

i pulled staples out of arms at 19, stoped a few suicides, od's in undergrad, worked with the homeless, teach refugees, i've been told meeting me has prevented around 10 probably suicide attempts, worked with murderers, hang out with the homeless for fun, 5 friends have offed themselves, mmm, the biology bit, well, never met an attending that has the depth of knowledge i do in biopsych, and im not joking... seriously... i even know about the other 75 percent of meds docs think don't exist... plus having a neuro condition, they tried them all on me... worked with alzheimers, continuing care, mental hospital... yeah, i wonder why canada's best mental health school asked me to apply... i guess well, rigid minds in nebulous disciplines... makes for high standard deviations, and students who well... without being arrogant, would make attending psych's jealous... idunno, there's too much, intangiable experience, for most to learn the non-linuistic tools that have no guidebook, so to speak... that sounds arrogant to most, but it's true, if psychologists coule prescribe, and if you could challenge for license based on panel review of competancy, i'd make than the average shrink tommorrow... i wrote a book on adhd in my free time, lol, because i was tired of well, ignorance towards real adhd... which is extremely complex... but having a license would incline you to the dsm, or the billing code referal book, and patent extension book for new indications as i call it... but max weber sais i need a license ... i can also talk about inositol triphosphate, dag, ip2, map kinase, if people wanna talk biochem... i know the arts **** must get tiring... maybe some bose-einstein condensate... ****... you know, science is only les obnoxious if it's all you know, when it's like, well, i know science in addition to my encyclopedia of bull**** arts... that might come off ass arrogant, but caring to much makes you work a bit harder... you know what i mean ;)

As if being a good doctor depends simply on being licensed...

[muse87]

i strongly agree... for some fields especially...

I'm not sure how that's relevant to this thread, but I'll pretend it is. I think that's an awfully complacent view. The question should never be whether the process works, but rather if there is room for improvement, though some would contest even the the prior.

[muse87]

i want to do both, strangely... however, you're write in that my tangental interests have seemed to settle on a similar end to be served, health... whether clinicaly, administrative, health systems, ei, legal advocacy, so personally, i can strongly resonate with this view


For someone to get through the system comparable to a salmon swimming upstream and successfully going through all those obstacles to span and suddenly discover he/she is not a salmon is incredible. Having gotten into and through med school, through licencing and into practice, you shall have found your niche and now are making your contribution to society as a physician or in medical administration, etc. I cannot see that many if any discover they hate medicine and want to be a lawyer, but if that happens, his/her legal practice will likely be involved in defending or going after physicians in malpractice suits.

[future_doc]

See http://www.law.asu.edu/News/CollegeofLawNews.aspx?NewsId=2371 where some students have studied both law and medicine. :)

[muse87]

oh, that's the plan, i've always been very multidisciplinary, in the sense that i need to be multimodal to maintain interest, but i find my topics of interest solidifying... rather than my topics of interest diverging... if you're into policy and what not they can be very complimentary! :)

See http://www.law.asu.edu/News/CollegeofLawNews.aspx?NewsId=2371 where some students have studied both law and medicine. :)

[future_doc]

They are a superb combination. Some members here have a law degree and have entered med. :)

[muse87]

yeah, i think you have to have a real interest though, i find the jd to law students aren't as enthused about law, compared to the contra... i don't have a big interest in malpractice or financial incentives (legal work via medicine is easy without a law degree, no added incentive besides care :) ... so cheesy, whatevs) to attaining a law degreem so i think you really have to do it more to satisfy yourself

They are a superb combination. Some members here have a law degree and have entered med. :)

[dazzle]

that is interesting about law/med students. i would love an md phd philosophy

what you think

i heard boston offers this

[peace2012]

I was just wondering how people know medicine is for them before they got into medical school. I am still uncertain whether I want to pursue medicine because I have not gotten much exposure to it. What do you think are some of the volunteer opportunities or experiences that may give me a better understanding and reason to pursue medicine?

[mfouts]

Try volunteering at a hospital, you can get good exposure there. That, or maybe shadow a doctor, however i've never done it or known anyone to do so, so maybe someone else can comment on that. I do remember seeing a thread about doctor shadowing and how some doctors don't like doing it... not to sure there.

[bobert bobhead]

I think there are plenty of threads on this topic if you're willing to search for them. But I think the general consensus that you'll find is that its really difficult to tell if medicine is right for you until you're knee deep in the wards.

Sure you can look at the traits, think of the perks, read books and talk to people in the know but you won't be able to see how it all affects YOU until its YOU that's living the life. Some people do it because they like the combination of hard science and softer people skills, some like the responsibility and the managerial aspect, some do it because their parents told them to. Medicine is broad and everyone finds their own niche, maybe you should just get some exposure to the environment, keep an open mind and see if it peaks your interest.

There are ways and experiences that you could try out to give you some insight, beyond the obvious (shadowing doctors, volunteering in a hospital) you could volunteer with public health initiatives or peer support groups.

[ellorie]

I did a lot of crisis counselling as an undergrad, working telephone crisis lines. It's a good way to see if you can tolerate other people's misery and it is meaningful, useful work.

That was definitely what gave me my reason, though I don't know if I would say it gave me any kind of comprehensive understanding of medicine as a career. I think it gave me more than working in a hospital though - I basically cleaned out closets and changed bedpans - I learned a lot more about nursing than I did about medicine.

I kind of wonder if maybe you won't know if it's for you until you dive in. I realized pretty quickly when I started medical school that I didn't know as much about medicine as I thought I did, and I think I probably STILL don't know as much as I would like about what being a doctor is really like.

I guess I just figured out that I like doing the kinds of things doctors do - solving problems, evaluating the evidence, talking to people. I don't think it's the ONLY career I could have been happy in - there are lots of other areas that would offer me that. But I sprung for medicine and so far I am happy with it. I think you just choose and take the good and the bad as it comes.

[brooksbane]

You don't. You can't. You just do it.

[davidq90]

You don't. You can't. You just do it.

I tried answering OPs question, but couldn't and feel like you summed it up pretty nicely for me.