Future of Pharmacy

[skymall88]

It is so frustrating to be reading the american forums on how pharmacy is over saturated and basically a dying field and how its best to choose a different career.

So, I decided to do some canadian research on this topic and found contradictory information and therefore would like to know what everyone else thinks and/or knows about the future of pharmacy in canada?


Will jobs really be that hard to find in 5 years? will pay be dramatically decreased? I am interested in pharmacy for many reasons but i also do not want to be struggling for a good job in four years with all of my student loans.

Any thoughts on the future of canadian pharmacy?

[shikimate]

I've heard from some people at UofT pharmacy saying jobs in urban areas are very scarce these days, but in rural and community practice there are definitely still jobs available. I can't confirm this info though.

[haps]

It is so frustrating to be reading the american forums on how pharmacy is over saturated and basically a dying field and how its best to choose a different career.

So, I decided to do some canadian research on this topic and found contradictory information and therefore would like to know what everyone else thinks and/or knows about the future of pharmacy in canada?


Will jobs really be that hard to find in 5 years? will pay be dramatically decreased? I am interested in pharmacy for many reasons but i also do not want to be struggling for a good job in four years with all of my student loans.

Any thoughts on the future of canadian pharmacy?

The further you go from urban centers the easier it gets to find a job. Getting night shifts isn't too bad either, but as far as I know its pretty rare to be hired by a Rexall or a Shoppers now a days. Not as a full-time employee, at least.

Will it be hard to find a job with in the next 5 years? It depends a lot on how the reimbursement models, which are being worked on right now, turn out. If they are profitable then yes, pharmacists should be fine. If they aren't then people will have to seriously consider moving to more remote areas or getting more education to do something more specialized.

If you like the field then you shouldn't mind working towards a PharmD (post-bacc), doing a residency etc to make yourself more competitive for the FHT and hospital type positions. You can also try to get into industry or policy, if thats your thing. I think the degree is a better alternative than say life science, but its not really the goldmine it used to be.

[FMX]

Job outlook definitely sucks. Grads this year are struggling to find jobs at the moment. Even rural communities are getting filled up with Pharmacists..

But to echo what was said in the post above me, pharmacy IS a the best option for your first degree, but if you are coming from a second degree, pharmacy might not be such a good idea anymore. Go into IT and work for google or microsoft, or IBM.. that's where the money is.

For me, if I could go back in time, I would have TOTALLY set myself up for a fall back plan in the IT sector. Healthcare seemed nice in the beginning, but with the current economic issues, it is no longer as stable or lucrative as it once was.

[keepontrying]

The further you go from urban centers the easier it gets to find a job. Getting night shifts isn't too bad either, but as far as I know its pretty rare to be hired by a Rexall or a Shoppers now a days. Not as a full-time employee, at least.

Will it be hard to find a job with in the next 5 years? It depends a lot on how the reimbursement models, which are being worked on right now, turn out. If they are profitable then yes, pharmacists should be fine. If they aren't then people will have to seriously consider moving to more remote areas or getting more education to do something more specialized.

If you like the field then you shouldn't mind working towards a PharmD (post-bacc), doing a residency etc to make yourself more competitive for the FHT and hospital type positions. You can also try to get into industry or policy, if thats your thing. I think the degree is a better alternative than say life science, but its not really the goldmine it used to be.

Amen. My pharm friends in BC are mostly working as floaters for shoppers and that totally sucks. Pharmacists are also now expected to expand their responsibilities with no increase in salary in order to alleviate some of the healthcare accessibility issues. More and more people are doing PharmD as this is the trend that Canada is heading towards to, and it opens more doors for you in the States (PharmD is the first pharm degree there, not BScPharm). Pharm is still a great route, but just don't expect to be smooth sail like before. More schooling might be needed.

[muse87]

i have quite a few young pharmacy friends and they basically echo these sentiments exactly, my one friend just moved to vancouver from cranbrook and took a 20 grand pay cut... i was gonna apply to pharmacy at ubc as a back up to dent and law since i like van and they all told me not to bother, especially now that pharmacy techs are getting more and more responsibility... they're all floating and there have been big pay cuts from even just a few years ago

Amen. My pharm friends in BC are mostly working as floaters for shoppers and that totally sucks. Pharmacists are also now expected to expand their responsibilities with no increase in salary in order to alleviate some of the healthcare accessibility issues. More and more people are doing PharmD as this is the trend that Canada is heading towards to, and it opens more doors for you in the States (PharmD is the first pharm degree there, not BScPharm). Pharm is still a great route, but just don't expect to be smooth sail like before. More schooling might be needed.

[keepontrying]

Even law is having problems with market saturation actually in all big cities. It's sad.

[Hieu]

In Quebec, new pharmacist still can get easily a 80k jobs before graduation.
Many of them get a 100k jobs.

[Let'sGo1990]

Wow, this is depressing. Dent, pharmacy, law, etc. everything seems like it's being over saturated. And they all require fairly high GPAs, cost a ****load of tuition, and require a pretty heavy amount of schooling. Basically, it sounds like people are investing the younger years of their lives into these programs and nothing seems to be coming out of it in return.

Is this mostly because of college diplomas taking on more responsibility/expanding? Stuff like dental hygiene, dental assistant, pharmacy tech, etc?

[john2635]

No i don't think its hard to find job. Canada have a huge scope of pharmacy trust me. If u want to see check canadian immigration site. they are hiring pharmacist.

[hexonu]

Pretty much what others have said the more north you go the better the prospects. Suck though a lot of medical related fields are being over saturated my sister used to make $75/hr as a dental hygienist now she makes $45 because shes having to fight off new grads dude to over saturation in Ontario.

[marjorie_and_the_brains]

This thread is off in so many ways...

[pekau7]

Amen. My pharm friends in BC are mostly working as floaters for shoppers and that totally sucks. Pharmacists are also now expected to expand their responsibilities with no increase in salary in order to alleviate some of the healthcare accessibility issues. More and more people are doing PharmD as this is the trend that Canada is heading towards to, and it opens more doors for you in the States (PharmD is the first pharm degree there, not BScPharm). Pharm is still a great route, but just don't expect to be smooth sail like before. More schooling might be needed.

There are a lot of pharmacists scandalized by saturation of pharmacists in the market while schools are building more pharm mills with more pharm graduates. (Excluding foreign pharmacists flooding in) I can see how the job prospect is horrifying at the moment.

Question is, will the prospect get better after... say, 5 -6 years? Many elders will have to retire whether they like it or not, and they will need lots of drugs. Plus, this should be about the time when old guards (senior pharmacists) should be retiring simply because they're getting too damn old. I'd imagine pharmacists who've been looking for jobs will get the first dib... not sure where I'd fit into the equation by the time I graduate though. :( (Probably graduate in 5 -6 years, give or take)

[AKY]

Pretty much what others have said the more north you go the better the prospects. Suck though a lot of medical related fields are being over saturated my sister used to make $75/hr as a dental hygienist now she makes $45 because shes having to fight off new grads dude to over saturation in Ontario.

$75/h as a dental hygienist? That is nuts, she must have been in Northern Ontario.. I know a lot of offices are paying like $28/h for hygienists coming out of school. The job market is so over saturated in Ontario. The new changes to the hygienist education should change that somewhat hopefully. Even with experience, most hygienists get paid in the low to mid $30's/hour, so $45/ hour still seems like a lot

[Let'sGo1990]

Pretty much what others have said the more north you go the better the prospects. Suck though a lot of medical related fields are being over saturated my sister used to make $75/hr as a dental hygienist now she makes $45 because shes having to fight off new grads dude to over saturation in Ontario.

$75. Wow. Not that I don't believe you, but that's insane. What part of the country did she work in?

[Let'sGo1990]

$75/h as a dental hygienist? That is nuts, she must have been in Northern Ontario.. I know a lot of offices are paying like $28/h for hygienists coming out of school. The job market is so over saturated in Ontario. The new changes to the hygienist education should change that somewhat hopefully. Even with experience, most hygienists get paid in the low to mid $30's/hour, so $45/ hour still seems like a lot

They're still being paid low to mid 30??? I was under the impression they were hitting low to mid 20s per hour. There's just so god damn many dental hygienists/assistants. Same with pharmacy techs.

Speaking of pharmacy techs, I know a couple of them in the last year of the college program. According to them, there's some sort of an "upgrade" program, where pharm techs can apply and upgrade to being full fledged pharmacists without having to go through uni. I'm pretty sure they're being delusional, unless someone can show me that this program actually exists.. lol.

[seeking1]

A current pharm student at U of T told me that pharm in Canada is screwed because in the past 15 years they have tripled pharm enrollment, which means that in 10 years they will have completely rolled over the current stock of pharmacists.

Can anyone confirm this? :confused:

[A Second Daniel]

A current pharm student at U of T told me that pharm in Canada is screwed because in the past 15 years they have tripled pharm enrollment, which means that in 10 years they will have completely rolled over the current stock of pharmacists.

Can anyone confirm this? :confused:

I highly doubt this given the silver tsunami headed our way (huge elderly population).

[seeking1]

I highly doubt this given the silver tsunami headed our way (huge elderly population).

This answer has little to do with pharmacist supply, which seems to be the overarching problem.

I have also come to the understanding that the "silver tsunami" phenomenon is overblown, as aging is a gradual and predictable process.

Does anyone have any numbers, figures or reports to address my question?

[seeking1]

This recent article in the Globe and Mail speaks to the topic of this thread: article (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/in-alberta-pharmacists-have-a-bitter-pill-to-dispense/article2368376/).

I have heard offhand from friends at U of T pharma school that a whole bunch of them are trying to jump ship into medicine. Apparently, with governments cutting back, pharmaceutical companies cutting rebates, and the corporatization of the profession, the profession is facing a tough time and having an identity crisis.

[Robin Hood]

This recent article in the Globe and Mail speaks to the topic of this thread: article (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/in-alberta-pharmacists-have-a-bitter-pill-to-dispense/article2368376/).

I have heard offhand from friends at U of T pharma school that a whole bunch of them are trying to jump ship into medicine. Apparently, with governments cutting back, pharmaceutical companies cutting rebates, and the corporatization of the profession, the profession is facing a tough time and having an identity crisis.

Or they can still learn French and come to Quebec.

[IamIDP]

No i don't think its hard to find job. Canada have a huge scope of pharmacy trust me. If u want to see check canadian immigration site. they are hiring pharmacist.

lol, it's clear to me you have no idea what your talking about.
There are spots open canadians to go into pharmacy, med, dentistry, and optemtry...but how hard is it to get the seat? VERY VERY hard.

I've met and heard about alot of health care professionals who are finding it hard to break the average salary due to limited work places. Remember, we live in a large country with a very small population and jobs are become more saturated.

Also, IT gets paid alot more than healthcares nowadays, I know a few people in IT making $200/hour (very talented), that beats most surgeons salary by a mile, especially with the amount of years you have to do to become a doctor vs IT.

[tcelling]

As a current pharmacist in Alberta I can perhaps shed a little bit of light on the situation in this part of the country. Alberta has not been hit nearly as hard as the rest of the country. There are still jobs to be had, even for new grads. However, the big signing bonuses are a thing of the past and you may not end up in the position you had hoped for immediately out of school. Many new grads are taking relief positions so they can live in Calgary or Edmonton. If you are willing to go out of these two cities there are plenty of vacant positions. Wages have not decreased but have stayed idle for the past 2-3 years. Current staff pharmacist wages are $45-47/hr in Calgary depending on the company. FT relief will pay you about $2 more (as an employee). Contracted relief pays $57-60/hr. Overnight pays $53/hr. Wages will be ~$5 higher in rural centers and $1-$2 less in Edmonton. The future of pharmacy carries a lot of unknowns especially regarding remuneration for cognitive services and the licensing of technicians. To answer a previous question, no, technicians can not become pharmacists without going to a 4 year pharmacy degree program. However, in Alberta, they can become a licensed technician now which will allow for a "tech-check-tech" program in community pharmacy. This could potentially decrease the number of pharmacists needed depending on how it is implemented and the number of cognitive services added. However, keep in mind that if companies follow the policies set out by the Alberta College of Pharmacists, a pharmacist will still need to verify the appropriateness of therapy for each RX. Furthermore, the system will require two licensed technicians to check each RX which may eliminate the financial benefit versus just hiring a pharmacist.

-T

[Let'sGo1990]

As a current pharmacist in Alberta I can perhaps shed a little bit of light on the situation in this part of the country. Alberta has not been hit nearly as hard as the rest of the country. There are still jobs to be had, even for new grads. However, the big signing bonuses are a thing of the past and you may not end up in the position you had hoped for immediately out of school. Many new grads are taking relief positions so they can live in Calgary or Edmonton. If you are willing to go out of these two cities there are plenty of vacant positions. Wages have not decreased but have stayed idle for the past 2-3 years. Current staff pharmacist wages are $45-47/hr in Calgary depending on the company. FT relief will pay you about $2 more (as an employee). Contracted relief pays $57-60/hr. Overnight pays $53/hr. Wages will be ~$5 higher in rural centers and $1-$2 less in Edmonton. The future of pharmacy carries a lot of unknowns especially regarding remuneration for cognitive services and the licensing of technicians. To answer a previous question, no, technicians can not become pharmacists without going to a 4 year pharmacy degree program. However, in Alberta, they can become a licensed technician now which will allow for a "tech-check-tech" program in community pharmacy. This could potentially decrease the number of pharmacists needed depending on how it is implemented and the number of cognitive services added. However, keep in mind that if companies follow the policies set out by the Alberta College of Pharmacists, a pharmacist will still need to verify the appropriateness of therapy for each RX. Furthermore, the system will require two licensed technicians to check each RX which may eliminate the financial benefit versus just hiring a pharmacist.

-T

Thanks for the perspective/insight man. But could you clarify that a little more? To even enter the 4 year pharmacy degree program you need at least one year of uni right (I forget the requirements for the different schools, but I think the least you can get away with is 1 year at one of the schools)? You can't just apply to enter straight from the college pharm tech program.

[tcelling]

Thanks for the perspective/insight man. But could you clarify that a little more? To even enter the 4 year pharmacy degree program you need at least one year of uni right (I forget the requirements for the different schools, but I think the least you can get away with is 1 year at one of the schools)? You can't just apply to enter straight from the college pharm tech program.


What you said is correct. In order to enter a pharmacy degree program a prospective student (regardless of previous technician experience) needs a minimum of 1 year of undergraduate studies in the prerequisite courses. In some schools the only way to complete these courses in one year, however, is to do all of fall/winter/spring/summer semesters. Most schools recommend you take 2 years to complete the prerequisites.

Keep an eye on this 1+4 (1 undergrad year + 4 pharmacy) system as some schools are rumoured to be going to a 2+4 entry level PharmD system (same as in the US) including the UofA (was supposed to already be in place but has since been delayed until who knows when and a new post grad PharmD program was added). I am not up to date on what other schools have been up to lately in this regard.

-T

[Strutter]

Hey everyone. Sorry to bump an old thread (I thought this was relevant). I am studying for finals right now, however, there has been something that has been bothering me.

I am currently in UBC Pharmacy school, and am concerned about the job outlook of a pharmacist in the future. Here are a couple points:

1. Pharmacy technicians in BC can now become "regulated pharmacy technicians" who take on some of the roles and tasks for pharmacists. Pharmacists get more free time to focus on the patient. However, I can see this leading to less demand for pharmacists, and possibly lay offs. Some good news is that pharmacist's responsibilities are being increased (eg. injections, prescription right to minor ailments, etc.).

2. Generic drug prices will decrease from 35% to 20% in BC. Other provinces may follow. Assuming pharmacies profit from these prices, it could mean less money coming in for pharmacies. This could lead to decreased salary, and possibly lay offs to cope with the change.

Here is an article showing this: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/11/23/bc-generic-drug-price-cuts.html

3. I've heard stories of new pharmacy graduates who have floater positions. UBC increased its seats from 150 to 224. Waterloo also has a fairly new pharmacy school. This can lead to saturation, especially in the future when there are no more baby boomers around.

This is not an exhaustive list.

It took a lot of hard work to get into Pharmacy school. While I enjoy pharmacy, I think job security is important. Pharmacy seemed ideal when I was looking up careers in 2009. I would be willing to switch career paths after this year if there are no guaranteed jobs after graduation..

Maybe I spent too much time on SDN forums where I hear of US pharmacists 100K in debt and looking for jobs. Hopefully it is much different in Canada. I'm praying for more positive changes in Pharmacy. Can anybody provide any additional information on the current status, stories, or any news that affect the future of pharmacy? I know this is a sort of old thread, but there have been some recent changes in pharmacy.

[Alfredsson]

I honestly don't understand why the schools keep increasing seats. UBC and U of T need to trim it down to 170 or so.

I'm a little worried about this as well...as I'm applying for Pharm this year, but all jobs are going through this period right now....even doctors are having trouble securing a job!

[nakiokevo]

Here's my two cent. I was chatting with a good friend of mine a couple of months ago, and he graduated from UBC Pharmacy way back in 2006. He told me not to go into Pharmacy. Pharmacy is not as hot as it was years before. Like many have said... The golden years of pharmacy are over. Unless you relocate to a more rural area, it's going to be difficult to secure a job. If job security is your main priority, you might want to reconsider.

[bcpharmacist]

This might be an old thread but I thought its worth mentioning that as of April there has been a significant pharmacy funding cut, not only in BC but technically in all provinces as generic prices set to as low as 18% of brand (from 35% in BC), some generics even less, in AB there was also an unexpected cut, this is translated to up to 15% of loss in revenues which is significant.
The impact of such cuts is still to be seen, as a pharmacy owner I can see pharmacies close downs in the near future, esp independents with low rx count, this means more job seekers and more pressure on the already saturated market.
As for the future outlook (5-10 years from now), it is expected to see a big hike in rx numbers which logically means an increase in the number of new openings for pharmacists, however; my opinion is that this will easily be filled up by the increased numbers of new grads and the increase of pharmacist's workload (forced by funding cuts), the current published market outlook estimates that by 2020 the number of new openings will roughly be equal to the number of available pharmacists, suggesting no big change in unemployment rates or wages, but this analysis does not take into account the impact of funding cuts which by far exceeds the claimed expansion of pharmacists' role and the introduction of the clinical services.
In my opinion by 2020 there will be more pharmacists looking for jobs than jobs available, unfortunately the increased in supply will force wages to decrease.