View Full Version : doctors accused of drugging and sexually assaulting woman
iicii
02-19-2011, 06:08 PM
holy crap!
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/941885--doctors-accused-of-drugging-and-sexually-assaulting-woman?bn=1
Renin
02-19-2011, 06:10 PM
*palmface*
Ugh. Why do these things happen.
looks like someone i practiced mmi's with
thehumanmacbook
02-19-2011, 07:03 PM
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/941885--doctors-accused-of-drugging-and-sexually-assaulting-woman?bn=1
charmer08
02-19-2011, 07:12 PM
awe they ruined their careers :(
lostintime
02-19-2011, 07:13 PM
awe they ruined their careers :(
Well they kind of ruined someone else's life....if they are guilty.
Karma
02-19-2011, 07:17 PM
Let's not jump to conclusions. They weren't found guilty yet.
m1428
02-19-2011, 07:30 PM
I seriously hope this turns out to be false.....
juice
02-19-2011, 08:11 PM
Why is this even news anymore.. it seems to happen every month. Well, these guys aren't proven guilty yet, so who knows.
The most puzzling one was recently when that medical student in the states hired strippers and did something to them.
rmorelan
02-19-2011, 08:18 PM
Why is this even news anymore.. it seems to happen every month. Well, these guys aren't proven guilty yet, so who knows.
The most puzzling one was recently when that medical student in the states hired strippers and did something to them.
Because society puts doctors on a pedestal and is somehow amazed when they mess up I guess. Still this case is unusual as well as there are two of them.
charmer08
02-19-2011, 08:29 PM
Because society puts doctors on a pedestal and is somehow amazed when they mess up I guess. Still this case is unusual as well as there are two of them.
Yeah and I don't think anyone expects doctors to do something like this. Doctors and lawyers are the two people that people trust and share personal info with.
Why is this even news anymore.. it seems to happen every month. Well, these guys aren't proven guilty yet, so who knows.
The most puzzling one was recently when that medical student in the states hired strippers and did something to them.
I don't know if you guys remember but the Toronto Police had a stripper in a locked room in their basement or something a couple of years back. One of the constables bit the stripper in the ass. That story caused a bit of controversy too.
I think people definitely hold "professionals" (in quotations because it depends on how you define it) to a higher moral standard as some other posters have already mentioned, which results in their faults being blown WAY out of proportion when it does happen. People seem to forget that doctors, lawyers and police officers ARE PEOPLE TOO.
Not only that...it also seems to reflect poorly on the rest of the organization/profession.
I remember when Mr. Russel Williams was arrested in Trenton, many of my peers stopped going into town during their free time (still duty hours/during the work day) to have lunch, buy coffee or run errands in fear of harassment. Not completely unfounded fears either, I know of at least one person who was spat on when he was wearing his uniform in town around that time.
Yeah and I don't think anyone expects doctors to do something like this. Doctors and lawyers are the two people that people trust and share personal info with.
hmmmmm i dont know about that
juice
02-19-2011, 10:11 PM
hmmmmm i dont know about that
I don't think we really have a choice with lawyers. You have to tell them everything (so they know how to stop you from getting f***ed).
And you also know at the same time that there's a 95% probability they're overcharging you, haha.
One of their offices is way too close to my house! Super creepy
I think it's interesting to note that she went to two bars with them, while seeking 'career advice.' Clearly the whole story's not here but it looks rough on both sides, IMO.
Are you implying that just because they are doctors this could not happen?
One of the doctors worked with the female.
Why Leon, because the girl meet one of her co-workers to seek some help?
Mourning Cloak
02-20-2011, 02:48 PM
One of their offices is way too close to my house! Super creepy
I think it's interesting to note that she went to two bars with them, while seeking 'career advice.' Clearly the whole story's not here but it looks rough on both sides, IMO.
Reports say that she knew Amitabh Chauhan. I guess she must have trusted him enough to meet with him at a bar. (They say she was ambushed by the second guy shortly after arriving).
Moral of the story: keep your hand over your drink. Psychopaths are everywhere.
One of the doctors worked with the female.
Reports say that she knew Amitabh Chauhan.
Sorry, didn't know that part. It looked, from the original article, like they were mostly strangers.
Sexually assaulting a co-worker? How did they even think they'd get away with it?
Sorry, didn't know that part. It looked, from the original article, like they were mostly strangers.
Sexually assaulting a co-worker? How did they even think they'd get away with it?
I know eh? Guess they thought the drug would erase all memory of the night.
TonesRN
02-20-2011, 05:32 PM
One of the doctors worked with the female.
I don't know where you got this information. From what I read it was someone he knew and was providing 'career guidance' to. This can be anyone from a pre-med, medical student, or someone completely different (in addition to a co-worker).
TonesRN, some of the news agencies are reporting the relationship at McMaster.
Never for a second turn your head away from your drink and always carry it into the washroom with you.
accused of allegedly
of course always allegedly
TonesRN
02-20-2011, 06:32 PM
TonesRN, some of the news agencies are reporting the relationship at McMaster.
Can you provide the link to this article? I've read a few and none have mentioned a work-related relationship. Thanks.
the point is, they're not proven to be guilty yet. that will be discovered in a court of law. many people (think: kobe bryant) often see $$$$ and cry wolf.
the point is, they're not proven to be guilty yet. that will be discovered in a court of law. many people (think: kobe bryant) often see $$$$ and cry wolf.
True. I just don't see how anyone with sense would do this to someone they know? Unless they could obliviate, lol
Nevertheless, innocent till proven guilty.
juice
02-20-2011, 08:27 PM
the point is, they're not proven to be guilty yet. that will be discovered in a court of law. many people (think: kobe bryant) often see $$$$ and cry wolf.
looool, says the guy with kobe bryant in his display picture..hahah.
But actually, you're completely correct.
Also, this case seems kinda fishy to be honest. The story just doesn't seem right.
i respect kobe for his skill.
objectively, he wouldn't have to rape someone. any of the superstars have girls begging to have sex with them.
larva
02-20-2011, 09:19 PM
i respect kobe for his skill.
objectively, he wouldn't have to rape someone. any of the superstars have girls begging to have sex with them.
Since rape is about power, not sex, I would argue that those superstars could easily be the type of men who don't handle hearing the word NO very well.
As for the two doctors, seeing as how there is a new allegation against one of them, it definitely doesn't look good at this time. However, I agree that jumping to conclusions based solely on preliminary media reports isn't fair to anyone.
possibly, but kobe was cleared of rape, and the girl was lying.
Nobodycirclesthewagons
02-20-2011, 10:26 PM
accused of allegedly
I don't think "allegedly" has to be put in there if the authors stated that the doctors were "accused" of rape. It's redundant to use both words there. "Doctors accused of rape" or "Doctors allegedly commit rape" mean the same thing.
As for superstars not needing to rape anyone, I disagree. While there are tons of groupies who would easily have sex with a big name athlete, there are some girls who wouldn't. Like another person said, when you're so used to hearing girls say yes or coming at you, a "no" can be hard to accept. With that said, I was in Kobe's court during the Kate Faber case and didn't believe her side.
future_doc
02-21-2011, 12:05 AM
I don't think we really have a choice with lawyers. You have to tell them everything (so they know how to stop you from getting f***ed).
And you also know at the same time that there's a 95% probability they're overcharging you, haha.
A lawyer got 2 men off on a criminal charge. He told them his fee was $10,000. They were smiling. So he quickly added the word "each" and doubled his fee. The clients were so happy and had no complaint, totally unaware that they were overcharged. They were just grateful.
I don't think "allegedly" has to be put in there if the authors stated that the doctors were "accused" of rape. It's redundant to use both words there. "Doctors accused of rape" or "Doctors allegedly commit rape" mean the same thing.
As for superstars not needing to rape anyone, I disagree. While there are tons of groupies who would easily have sex with a big name athlete, there are some girls who wouldn't. Like another person said, when you're so used to hearing girls say yes or coming at you, a "no" can be hard to accept. With that said, I was in Kobe's court during the Kate Faber case and didn't believe her side.
You're right, but I just wanted people to recognize that the verdict wasn't out yet. You were at the Kobe case? Interesting story behind that?
muse87
02-21-2011, 01:10 AM
if i was charged with a crim offense i'd have a blank check for my lawyer (although i wouldn't tell him), can't lose that medical license... unfortunately i think it's going to be a bit tougher for these two, once you even get charged with something this serious your career's in the toilet for the most part
A lawyer got 2 men off on a criminal charge. He told them his fee was $10,000. They were smiling. So he quickly added the word "each" and doubled his fee. The clients were so happy and had no complaint, totally unaware that they were overcharged. They were just grateful.
I disagree. Unless they're guilty, their career won't be affected at all. It wouldn't go past the discipline process.
Now if she was one of their patients, and there was some other stuff going on, but not criminal... then it's another issue.
Karma
02-21-2011, 01:38 AM
Doctors don't directly pay their lawyers. Their insurance company provides the best lawyers free of charge.
About her not being their patient, it does't matter, they can still have their license revoked on the ground of not acting as a doctor should act. I'm sure there's an article in their deontological law that covers it.
Also, they are probably going to be sued in criminal court (for sure), have a disciplinary investigation in the province's medical association and if the so called victim wants to, she can sue them in the civil courts.
future_doc
02-21-2011, 01:40 AM
Doctors don't directly pay their lawyers. Their insurance company provides the best lawyers free of charge.
Even though the lawyers are not free. :p
muse87
02-21-2011, 03:37 AM
It's not necessarily the crime, but the publicity it's gotten, anytime I google these guys names these news stories will pop up, and that might make certain people hesitant to hire etc., i'm not saying they're dead in the water but their careers will be severely held back, whether it's fair or not is another matter.
I disagree. Unless they're guilty, their career won't be affected at all. It wouldn't go past the discipline process.
Now if she was one of their patients, and there was some other stuff going on, but not criminal... then it's another issue.
muse87
02-21-2011, 03:39 AM
i thought we only got our lawyers paid for if the charge was related to medical practice. if you're charged with dui, possession with the intent to traffic etc., stuff not related to your practice, are you still covered?
Doctors don't directly pay their lawyers. Their insurance company provides the best lawyers free of charge.
About her not being their patient, it does't matter, they can still have their license revoked on the ground of not acting as a doctor should act. I'm sure there's an article in their deontological law that covers it.
Also, they are probably going to be sued in criminal court (for sure), have a disciplinary investigation in the province's medical association and if the so called victim wants to, she can sue them in the civil courts.
Karma
02-21-2011, 04:03 AM
You're right. It seems to me that this matter is related to medical practice, since they saw her as doctors to give her "career advice". I guess the insurance company will decide.
future_doc
02-21-2011, 07:28 AM
And they may need to retain their own lawyers a] to defend them and b] to go after their malpractice insurers to either i] recover their legal fees in 'a' or ii] ensure they take over their defence in the litigation for the charges.
Any way you slice it, lawyers will earn a fortune b/c of these bozos. And then, they will eventually face a civil case for financial damages and also potential a delicencing procedure.
Mourning Cloak
02-21-2011, 09:46 AM
i thought we only got our lawyers paid for if the charge was related to medical practice. if you're charged with dui, possession with the intent to traffic etc., stuff not related to your practice, are you still covered?
You are not. CMPA covers you only insofar as medical practice (negligent care/malpractice) goes (read their website, it's laid out very clearly).
Thus, the injured party has to be a patient. This woman was not a patient, nor is there any grounds for claiming a doctor-patient relationship, and ergo the CMPA won't touch this one with a 10 metre cattle prod.
Nor should they. Since when did (alleged) assault & gang rape constitute malpractice?
future_doc
02-21-2011, 09:57 AM
You are correct. And the lawyers are still the winners. Look at Dr. Conrad Murray in California re Michael Jackson. The criminal charges amy be due to malpractice but are entirely separate from malpractice and I have my doubts that his legal fees in the criminal charges will be paid by mis malpractice insurers.
Mourning Cloak
02-21-2011, 09:58 AM
Never for a second turn your head away from your drink and always carry it into the washroom with you.
Amen.
(This is solid advice for both sexes)
future_doc
02-21-2011, 10:00 AM
The clear glass the bartender uses may have already been coated with the drug, so really, bring your own glass and watch every movr, or better still, just don't drink in an environment that you do not control.
juice
02-21-2011, 10:47 AM
The clear glass the bartender uses may have already been coated with the drug, so really, bring your own glass and watch every movr, or better still, just don't drink in an environment that you do not control.
uhhh... lol
future_doc
02-21-2011, 10:51 AM
Truth can be stranger than fiction.
muse87
02-21-2011, 04:02 PM
that's what i was thinking, i agree completely
You are not. CMPA covers you only insofar as medical practice (negligent care/malpractice) goes (read their website, it's laid out very clearly).
Thus, the injured party has to be a patient. This woman was not a patient, nor is there any grounds for claiming a doctor-patient relationship, and ergo the CMPA won't touch this one with a 10 metre cattle prod.
Nor should they. Since when did (alleged) assault & gang rape constitute malpractice?
http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110221/110221_sex_assault/20110221/?hub=CP24Home
Mourning Cloak
02-21-2011, 04:31 PM
The really sad part is that these sadistic psychopaths (sorry, alleged sadistic psychopaths) will probably get little more than a slap on the wrist.
Case in point:
Another real prince named Schneeberger (born S. Africa) was practicing in Kipling, SK as a family physician when a 23-year-old patient accused him of assalt and rape. Blood samples were taken to determine a match with the semen from the victim, and there was no match. For five years, the victim insisted that Schneeberger was her assailant.
Turns out Schneeberger had implanted a length of soft elastic tubing (filled with someone else's blood) into his antecubital fossa, thus foiling the blood test. (The rumor at the time was that his brother was a surgeon, and had assisted him with this). And having gotten away with it scot free, Schneeberger went to work on repeatedly drugging and raping his 15-year-old step-daughter.
Eventually, Schneeberger's wife discovered he'd been assaulting her child, and the police sampled his DNA again. And so he was eventually (5 years later) convicted of the assault and rape of two women, one of them repeatedly and a child.
Anybody want to guess how much time he did? Four years.
(My suggestion of traumatic amputation of genitalia with bailing wire was, unfortunately, ignored by the sentencing magistrate).
muse87
02-21-2011, 06:54 PM
I watched the movie about this when I was a kid, freaked me out. this guy should have gotten 25 years. If you ever meet rape victims, they carry it around for life, have panic attacks when you get intimate, have nightmares, self mutilate etc., it's something that never goes away for the victim and a lot of people don't realize (especially the perpetrators) this when they commit the crime, the sad thing is many victims are ashamed of what happened and never report it, me and a friend who took her to the hospital at the time were the only people one of my ex's ever told about what happened to her, and she wouldn't even tell us the guy's name. the guy eventually tried to off himself, presumably he'd done it to other people and felt guilt, who knows!
The thing about sociopaths like this (if they're guilty) is that they're exactly like ordinary people, they can fake emotional empathy, be charming, and yet have no regard for the consequences of their actions, we see many of them in positions of high power specifically because of their cut throat nature, so it's no suprise to me that doctors would do this. I'm not saying all people who commit this sort of crime are sociopathic, some have been abused themselves, others under the infleunce of drugs, but no matter what they need to face stern consequences and rehabilitation their actions are a result of being assaulted themselves or some other factor.
The really sad part is that these sadistic psychopaths (sorry, alleged sadistic psychopaths) will probably get little more than a slap on the wrist.
Case in point:
Another real prince named Schneeberger (born S. Africa) was practicing in Kipling, SK as a family physician when a 23-year-old patient accused him of assalt and rape. Blood samples were taken to determine a match with the semen from the victim, and there was no match. For five years, the victim insisted that Schneeberger was her assailant.
Turns out Schneeberger had implanted a length of soft elastic tubing (filled with someone else's blood) into his antecubital fossa, thus foiling the blood test. (The rumor at the time was that his brother was a surgeon, and had assisted him with this). And having gotten away with it scot free, Schneeberger went to work on repeatedly drugging and raping his 15-year-old step-daughter.
Eventually, Schneeberger's wife discovered he'd been assaulting her child, and the police sampled his DNA again. And so he was eventually (5 years later) convicted of the assault and rape of two women, one of them repeatedly and a child.
Anybody want to guess how much time he did? Four years.
(My suggestion of traumatic amputation of genitalia with bailing wire was, unfortunately, ignored by the sentencing magistrate).
DubZteR
02-21-2011, 08:46 PM
http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110221/110221_sex_assault/20110221/?hub=CP24Home
I've definitely seen him around the hospital here. In a case like this, there's two sides to every story so it will be interesting to see how things unfold.
leviathan
02-21-2011, 09:05 PM
Doctors don't directly pay their lawyers. Their insurance company provides the best lawyers free of charge.
About her not being their patient, it does't matter, they can still have their license revoked on the ground of not acting as a doctor should act. I'm sure there's an article in their deontological law that covers it.
Also, they are probably going to be sued in criminal court (for sure), have a disciplinary investigation in the province's medical association and if the so called victim wants to, she can sue them in the civil courts.
You can't "sue" in criminal courts. I'm confused. Did you think that medical malpractice insurance would cover your lawyers for a criminal trial, not to mention one for sexual assault?
leviathan
02-21-2011, 09:08 PM
It's not necessarily the crime, but the publicity it's gotten, anytime I google these guys names these news stories will pop up, and that might make certain people hesitant to hire etc., i'm not saying they're dead in the water but their careers will be severely held back, whether it's fair or not is another matter.
True, but a family physician can continue to employ themselves and work out of their own clinics, and no clinic really ever does background checks on family doctors who want to work for them, beyond to maybe check their college registration (and scarily enough, they often dont even do that).
Nobodycirclesthewagons
02-21-2011, 10:59 PM
You're right, but I just wanted people to recognize that the verdict wasn't out yet. You were at the Kobe case? Interesting story behind that?
Yeah, fair enough. We as people have a tendency to "convict" people too early.
Also, my bad. I made a poor choice of words, haha. I meant to say I was on Kobe's side during that court case. I wish I could have been a juror, though :p
larva
02-21-2011, 11:21 PM
I've definitely seen him around the hospital here. In a case like this, there's two sides to every story so it will be interesting to see how things unfold.
I remember this guy from undergrad. I'm trying not to jump to conclusions, but first the police deny bail, and then they launch a massive hunt for other victims. I would hope that such drastic measures would only be taken if they have fairly compelling evidence.
http://www.oyetimes.com/news/canada/9693-police-seek-more-victims-of-dr-amitabh-chauhan-in-prairies-and-panama
Man, if it's true that they traveled together and did all of this, I have to say, I'm truly disgusted. It's unfortunate that it's so easy to lie or put up a facade in interviews. The process should be much more gruelling to ensure high ethical standards are maintained... one ethics question on an MMI just isn't enough, especially when you basically have to cover 3 topics.
No matter how intense the ethical standards are, there will be always intelligent and unethical people getting into med schools.
juice
02-22-2011, 11:09 AM
guys, relaxxx. Let's at least see what the verdict is before verbally whipping these guys.
Til then, let's all condemn this guy! : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Shipman
To be honest, my stomach squirmed when reading about that guy.:(
hking03
02-22-2011, 12:47 PM
guys, relaxxx. Let's at least see what the verdict is before verbally whipping these guys.
Til then, let's all condemn this guy! : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Shipman
To be honest, my stomach squirmed when reading about that guy.:(
juice, i do agree that verbally whipping an "innocent until proven guilty" man is a little premature.... however, another man by the name of juice comes to mind when i think of guilty vs not guilty... if we all agreed that the verdict should be how we form our own public opinion then the juice should have been heralded as an innocent man saved from a terrible fate... but we all know that's a crock of poopy.
the fact that the police are probing further into this is fairly compelling that something is afoot.
larva
02-22-2011, 11:57 PM
The media finally figured it out....
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2011/02/22/sexual-assault-doctors.html
It has not been a good year for military pilots :(
(although this one did not actually complete pilot training)
iicii
02-23-2011, 12:13 AM
def saw that one his fb profile...
The media finally figured it out....
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2011/02/22/sexual-assault-doctors.html
It has not been a good year for military pilots :(
(although this one did not actually complete pilot training)
muse87
02-23-2011, 01:39 AM
interesting bit of info, that is a bit scary, i always wondered how people got away with being "fake" doctors for years if all the checks and balances were in place, maybe sometimes they're not
True, but a family physician can continue to employ themselves and work out of their own clinics, and no clinic really ever does background checks on family doctors who want to work for them, beyond to maybe check their college registration (and scarily enough, they often dont even do that).
ch3wbacca1991
06-19-2012, 07:26 PM
so what ever happened to these guys?
ch3wbacca1991
06-20-2012, 01:06 AM
nobody? the media was all over these guys and no follow up? hmm...
jerkstore
06-20-2012, 06:51 PM
Did anyone notice one of them graduated from a carribean med school?
I guess it is possible to come back.
trojjanhorse
06-20-2012, 07:09 PM
Did anyone notice one of them graduated from a carribean med school?
I guess it is possible to come back.
lol, is that what you got out of the story?
Legion
06-20-2012, 08:01 PM
Did anyone notice one of them graduated from a carribean med school?
I guess it is possible to come back.
I guess it is. Sucks for him how he ruined such great accomplishment :D
ch3wbacca1991
06-20-2012, 08:47 PM
I guess it is. Sucks for him how he ruined such great accomplishment :D
what was the verdict though?
Legion
06-20-2012, 10:46 PM
what was the verdict though?
One of them was accused of another drugging and sexual assault 8 years earlier, but I don't know what happened to them. Hopefully they had their license taken away from them for good, in addition to jail and charges.
ch3wbacca1991
06-21-2012, 01:54 PM
One of them was accused of another drugging and sexual assault 8 years earlier, but I don't know what happened to them. Hopefully they had their license taken away from them for good, in addition to jail and charges.
How can you even come to the conclusion without all the facts being presented? I have no idea if they are innocent or guilty but it seems unfair to draw those conclusions based off pure media speculation.
Legion
06-21-2012, 04:50 PM
How can you even come to the conclusion without all the facts being presented? I have no idea if they are innocent or guilty but it seems unfair to draw those conclusions based off pure media speculation.
You're right. I should've mentioned IF they were found guilty.
calliope
07-05-2012, 07:09 AM
There are bad apples in every profession. You find unethical and "bad" personalities in law, the clergy, teaching, and ya, even medicine.
Every few years there's a huge scandal about "Angel of Death" nurses who purposely kill patients.
But these people are really in the minority. The media reports the worst of the worst. We never hear news about the boring and normal majority.
jerkstore
07-05-2012, 05:46 PM
If I was going to retire from the profession, this is how I would do it.
sprinkles
07-05-2012, 06:56 PM
If I was going to retire from the profession, this is how I would do it.
You would....rape someone?
I sure hope that was a (distasteful)joke
jerkstore
07-06-2012, 10:51 PM
Sure I already do what is constituted as rape in some countries to my girlfriend every night...
I think she likes it though...
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4hNaFkbZYU)
http://www.yorapper.com/Photos/you-gonna-get-raped-yorapper.jpg
ch3wbacca1991
09-13-2012, 12:25 AM
Any updates?
Legion
09-13-2012, 01:02 AM
Any updates?
Why are you so curious about this?
markov79
09-13-2012, 01:06 AM
Why are you so curious about this?
agreed, what?
ch3wbacca1991
09-13-2012, 02:00 AM
Sorry guys rather not say.
Legion
09-13-2012, 06:09 PM
Sorry guys rather not say.
You just gave it away :D
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