Advice Please - Long road to recovery (32 yrs. old)

[NerdyCanuck]

Hi everyone,

I’m new to the site but have spent a few hours reading other peoples experiences and insights which are amazing. I just turned 32 and my dream of going to Med School has been awoken again recently. I’d like to know if I should shut out these thoughts or perhaps pursue them. My situation is described below and I would really appreciate any advice. I apologize in advance for the long post.

Some background:

I have not written the MCAT. My marks for the typical prerequisites and the MCAT topics are generally very low (low 60s) and were completed a long time ago (10+ years ago).

Academics:

Note: I worked full-time work each year, and went through severe personal issues and hardships until 2003)

1994-1998 – B.Sc. Honours (Biology – Cumulative 2.38/4.0 scale; I took 5 courses each year)

1st year gpa – low 2
2nd year gpa – high 1
Summer between 2nd/3rd year (1 course) – 1.00
3rd year gpa – 3.52
4th year gpa – 2.30

1998- 2002 – B.Sc. Honours Co-op (Computer Science – Cumulative is about a 3.0/4.0)

98-99 gpa – 2.82 (4.5 courses)
99-00 gpa – 3.01 (4.5 courses)
00-02 was basically co-op terms (pass/fail of which I passed) and less than 2 courses each year.

2002-2003 – B.Ed. (all pass/fail courses of which I passed)

2004-current - M.Ed. (thesis-based) part-time

All courses complete with a 3.8 to 3.9 gpa (thesis remaining).

My extracurriculars:

With all due respect to other applicants and utmost humility, I think my ECs are very competitive so I’m not that worried about it (school principal, board of governor member for 2 colleges, setting up literacy and women education programs in 3rd world countries, etc;)

My Questions:

1) Next Steps to get into Med School:

Assuming that I now consider myself in the prime of my educational capabilities having conquered personal issues (and assuming you’ve read the above academic description), do you think it would be more prudent to write the MCAT and:

a) pursue a Ph.D (in Education – which would take 3 to 4 years realistically) and then apply to Med School

b) pursue another undergrad degree (!:confused: ! – this would be my 4th undergrad if you count the B.Ed….running out of designations so I’d like to get a B.A. if possible) which I would complete full-time in 2 years (or 3 years if it was an honours). If this option was chosen, I’d like to complete the B.A. before defending my M.Ed. thesis so that hopefully, the B.A. undergrad marks (assuming 5 courses at 3.7-4.0 gpa which I totally feel capable of doing) would be counted in my gpa calculation (as opposed to after my thesis defense which would render the B.A. marks not countable by some schools – any advice on this strategy? Does the fact that I started my M.Ed. before the B.A. render the B.A. marks uncountable even though, technically, I would have first completed the B.A. then completed the M.Ed.?)

c) finish the M.Ed. and apply to Med School

d) finish the M.Ed. and complete the B.A. after the M.Ed. (which according to some people, only a few schools consider the undergrad degree after the Masters)


2) Prerequsities:

Although I’ve completed all the prerequisites, they were done a long time ago (10+ years ago) and were done very poorly. Do you think I should repeat them to do better? Can you advise me on how schools look at these and how they would look at repeated prerequisite courses (although done a while back)?

Thanks in advance for your consideration and advice (and for reading this long post!). I really really appreciate it. I love this site!:)

NC

[stefanci]

holy crap!

that's just too much, dont know why you would do that to yourself, but nevertheless, congradulations!

you're making my future application to med school seem like a piece of toilet paper you're wiping your @ss with!

First of all, I think once you start something, you should finish it, and so I say finish the M.Ed.; apply and see what happens.

If it doesnt work out, then start thinking of maybe getting your B.A., or honestly, instead of spending another few years doing that, why not just go directly to another country (UK, Ireland, etc) and just start with the MBBS(MD) degree?

Hope that helps!

-Stef

[p0795195]

I think it depends on which school you want to attend. your best bets are either schools that admit through grad work ( youd have to build a great grad package) or those that consider only your last two years or undergrad (then you'd have to do your BA with some 3.9-4.0 GPA. I would say that you have greater possibilities and a shorter road with the second option but it all depends on you and your how you think you will perform.

[Yood]

You should check yourself with the individual medschools, but as something to keep in mind, some schools (McGill for certain) might require that prereqs taken more than 8 years ago be taken again.

You can still do a B.A., but all your electives would be substituted with science prereqs. In addition, prereqs are very important prep for the MCAT since, as you said, you've been out of the loop for a while and didn't do so hot in the prereqs in the first place.

In regards to more school... some canadian med schools give a slight advantage to graduate applicants, but it seems in general that the undergraduate degree is still weighted the most (McGill does not give any advantage). Your undergrad GPA's are not competitive and so this is another reason I would suggest doing another undergrad.

As for completing the Masters first... it's up to you. It is possible it might help your application with certain medical schools. In addition, it might be a good thing to have for your Plan B.

Your case is unusual though and the best advice I can give is to call up the medical schools that do have a separate pool for mature/graduate applicants (such as Toronto) and asking them if you'd be a competitive applicant.

[Sergie]

I turned 34 this year ;)
From my experience I would say: take ALL prereqs anyway - this gonna be ~ 1-1.5 of FT studies. Then, prepare for the MCAT seriously and get as much as you can (preferably ~ 30-33 and higher). Start your application the same year with the MCAT and apply to schools which favour grads and/or look only at the last two years of undergrad GPA. Prepare a perfect glorious RL and autobio. All together will take minimum 2 y + 1y for the application cycle itself.
However, during all these years I would still try to get in somewhere abroad (UK, AU, Caribbeans etc). Educate yourself about the differences in requirements, prereques and go according to the plan. This forum is a grat source of info, but take it with a grain of salt - check all you will have collected with the admissions from each particular school you will be interested in. Talk to them over the phone, make a good impression and ask everything.
BEST OF LUCK! You will need it. :)

[Sergie]

Oh, yah...
If you start another undergrad this will take these same 2-3 years but will definetely improve your chances + you can finish another degree in 2-3 y no doubts + you will have an apportunity to include all prereques in it + to get in shape.
Not a bad idea - worth to consider, I would say :)

[NerdyCanuck]

Thanks to everyone who responded. Some great advice.

I think I will spend 1.5-2 years doing 5 courses/year (along with the prerequisites although they would probably not count towards the degree due to transfer of courses from my previous degrees) to complete a 3-year B.A and write the MCAT sometime therein. My thesis will probably take that long anyway (with revisions and defense) so I'm hoping to complete the B.A. BEFORE the thesis defense - does anyone know if universities would count the B.A. g.p.a. since I would have completed it before the M.Ed. (although started it after the M.Ed.)?

I also work full-time and taking 5 courses while working is absolutely no joke.

Question 1: If you had a choice, given my already poor past academic performance, would you a) take a lesser course load and work full-time or b) take a lesser work load and take full-time courses?

I'm leaning towards b) since I think I need to prove I can get it done with 5 courses and don't really need to prove more ECs (and I could survive for 2 years on part-time work with no major hit to my career/living standards).

Question 2: Can anyone point me to a recent post (or simply type the answer here) as to which universities are grad friendly? (or should I call each school and speak to them - I've never done this...are they helpful? who do I speak to?)

Thanks again everyone. I figure I'll give this a shot and live with the fact that I tried my best when I could...no regrets later in life.:)

[rogerroger]

First off welcome! I think you are off to a great start!

Thanks to everyone who responded. Some great advice.

does anyone know if universities would count the B.A. g.p.a. since I would have completed it before the M.Ed. (although started it after the M.Ed.)?

Most med schools only use an undergrad GPA in the calculation.



Question 1: If you had a choice, given my already poor past academic performance, would you a) take a lesser course load and work full-time or b) take a lesser work load and take full-time courses?



Many schools such as Western require one to take a full course load. Any courses taken part time are not included in the calculation of ones GPA.



Question 2: Can anyone point me to a recent post (or simply type the answer here) as to which universities are grad friendly? (or should I call each school and speak to them - I've never done this...are they helpful? who do I speak to?

I know there are many former grad students in my meds class at Toronto. So I would consider UofT as a potential grad friendly school. However, I can't give you specifics because I only did an undergrad.

In general it can't hurt to call and ask how many grad applicants are successful.

[OneDay]

Grad friendly:
-UofT will allow grad applicants to have a lower gpa (3.0/4.0) and can submit an additional grad package showing research productivity
-Queens allows grad applicants to use their grad gpa as one year of the best two years above the cutoff (and QUeens will interview if you meet the MCAT cutoff and are slightly below the GPA cutoff)
-Ottawa allows grad students to have a lower WGPA of 3.5/4 and grads can submit extra package if invited for interviews
-Mac and NOSM give grads an additional 0.01 point in the formula that determines chance of interview (0.01 wooohooo!)

[Sergie]

I cannot remember where I saw this but try to google "Canadian med schools requirements chart" or something similar to it. It is an annual booklet where you could see everything from statistics to requisites.
Hope this helps, s.

[Sutler]

Grad friendly:
-UofT will allow grad applicants to have a lower gpa (3.0/4.0) and can submit an additional grad package showing research productivity
-Queens allows grad applicants to use their grad gpa as one year of the best two years above the cutoff (and QUeens will interview if you meet the MCAT cutoff and are slightly below the GPA cutoff)
-Ottawa allows grad students to have a lower WGPA of 3.5/4 and grads can submit extra package if invited for interviews
-Mac and NOSM give grads an additional 0.01 point in the formula that determines chance of interview (0.01 wooohooo!)

Is all that for MSc? or PhD?

[zizany]

I cannot remember where I saw this but try to google "Canadian med schools requirements chart" or something similar to it. It is an annual booklet where you could see everything from statistics to requisites.
Hope this helps, s.

http://www.afmc.ca/pdf/2008_admissions_book.pdf

[Sergie]

Yes, thanks zizany! That's what I meant.
unfortunately there is no stats for 2007/2008 and 2008/2009 academic years. I wonder why...

[zizany]

probably because those stats weren't available yet when they made the booklet.