View Full Version : brock premed program?
05-31-2002, 04:35 PM
anyone heard about the Brock premed program with the Medplus lectures and volunteering stuff.
It looks good, but as many people as I've talked to, I've never heard of anyone getting accepted to med school from Brock. Maybe this program is just trying to cash in on the huge numbers (in the thousands probably) of premed students that think they actually have a shot of getting accepted
anybody going to Brock or considering it?
06-01-2002, 09:38 AM
I have heard tell of this program but I have no idea of any of the details of it nor of Brock applicant's success in entering Med school. I don't know many Brock students - and only one in a science program. He went to Brock because it was the only Ontario university that would let him into a science program having failed OAC Calculus (a pre-req course for other university science programs). While I am sure that this doesn't reflect on ALL of Brock's science students, Brock's program does not tend to be large or too well, I don't know how to put this tactfully, 'respected'? Most pre-med students in Ontario would choose science programs at Mac, Queens, Western and many others before Brock. This may be the reason why we have never heard of a Brock grad getting in. Maybe there are not too many that applied! That said, I am a Guelph student and have never attended Brock. Therefore my opinion should be treated as that - an outside opinion.
06-01-2002, 11:45 AM
At one point, I considered Brock because it offered a specific program that seemed to be only offered at a few primarily undergrad schools (ie, the schools from which few premed applicants come). I asked a U of T med student at the time whether your UG school factors into how a medical school admission committee views you, and he said he didn't think so, but he also hadn't met any med students from a lot of the smaller schools in Ontario. However, you can probably view this as a reflection of advanced planning of potential premed applicants, rather than screening by the medical school.
I've never heard of this program at Brock, so I'm not sure I understand what it involves. However, I get the impression from your post that the volunteering component is an actual aspect of the program (eg, mandatory or preplanned volunteering efforts??) I am certainly no advocate of forced "volunteering"; however, it is true that when you have a more organized cohort of volunteers, there are possibilities to get involved with more interesting volunteering activities.
Benefits of Brock: it may not tend to attract as many students with stellar high school grades into its science programs, which means you may have a greater chance to shine. I'm sure there are many brilliant Brock students (especially when you factor in people who live in St Catharines and just can't afford to go away to school), but in general, a school with lower admissions standards may also expect to have less stellar in undergraduate courses than a school that only admits students with 80%+ averages. But again, this is not always the case. Another aspect of this is that I believe Brock requires SMALL seminars in all first year courses, which enables you to get close to other students and get to know your TAs (and perhaps even your profs).
Downsides: as a primarily non-science emphasizing school, make sure that Brock offers enough courses to meet your needs. Sure, there will be courses to fulfill your major program, but you should make sure that this program addresses all aspects of science you want to learn, since you may have less opportunity to branch out into other areas of science with your elective courses, since Brock's offerings may be somewhat limited compared to schools with larger science programs.
06-01-2002, 03:34 PM
you can go to Brock. That might be so, but both my undergraduate years are in the 90s. It's true that most people at Brock are laid back, friendly and don't revolve their life around getting into med school. It's true that if you work hard here the chances of doing well are very good since most people don't study 24/7. It's true that the class sizes are small (avg around 50-100) with weekly seminars (avg 10-15) with our professors.
Why didn't I go to U of T or any other cutthroat premed school? Well, I don't like huge classes full of people that study all the time, thus making the exams impossible in order to maintain the class avg around 70%. There are very few people that go to med school from Brock because there are very few who are interested in going to med school from here. The fact that Brock doesn't have the reputation that Queen's has doesn't make it a bad school, considering that most of my premed friends at Queens, U of T have avgs in the 60s-70s.
Some of you forget that the creator of this forum strategically went to UVic (I think?) over UBC. I'm sure he could have easily went to UBC for undergrad, but he would've certainly got a lower GPA. Why risk it? It worked out for him in the end.
I had a 96% avg in high school and I had scholarships to Queen's, U of T and would've had them at any other of the cutthroat schools. As we all know, getting a 90% avg in high school is no big deal and doesn't mean anything in the end. So for all you "smart" people out there who go to competitive schools, keep looking down at Brock with your 3.4 GPAs. I think I'll take my chances with almost a 4.0 at Brock. The theory that Brock may be "worse" than U of T doesn't hold any water. If that were the case, then med schools would only take applicants from U of T since it's the "best". Given that argument, unless you go to U of T you'll never get into med school. Let's extrapolate even more - unless you go to Harvard for undergrad, you will never get into med school since every other school has a worse reputation. Oh well, too bad for me.
P.S. The med plus program here kicks ass! I've shadowed physiotherapists, surgeons, internists and done research. It made for great conversation during my interviews.
my 2 cents
06-01-2002, 04:59 PM
I can only agree with BrockBoy. I went to McGill for my first undergrad very big program cut throat competitiveness, did I get a good GPA hell no! could I have gotten in with my poor 3.3. I think not. They would not have cared that I went to McGill or U of T or Queens with that sorry average. I did a second undergrad at a smaller school, less competitive, more friendly, laid back. I got my acceptance yesterday. I am all for smaller schools, you can get to know your professors better than in huge classes (bonus for recommendations), and be involved in some really great extra-curriculars. Going to a small school is definitely good thinking ahead.
I think the program sounds FANTASTIC! If I had known about it in high school, there's a decent chance I'd be at Brock now...
I think that it tends not to occur to people to go to smaller or "less prestigious" schools for undergrad - but the big-fish-small-pond argument really does hold water..
06-01-2002, 06:02 PM
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote>Quote:<hr> "So for all you "smart" people out there who go to competitive schools, keep looking down at Brock with your 3.4 GPAs. I think I'll take my chances with almost a 4.0 at Brock."<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->
This is one of the reasons why we UofT undergrads develop a superiority complex. (And most of us do, believe me.) See, not long after we started out at UofT, we realized how much harder we would have to work in order to get the marks for entrance into professional/graduate schools. Hence, we realized that we might as well get the recognition for our uphill climb. Some of us complain, some of us get bitter, but most of all, we just grow to love looking down at other universities which we perceive to be "easier rides" than UofT. It makes us feel better.
This is going to ruffle some feathers, but let's be honest. If you were a medical school admission committee member evaluating the academic abilities of two candidates (one from UofT, one from Brock) and given the well-accepted fact -- heck, as we see here even Brock undergrads themselves brag about this -- that UofT GPAs are generally achieved under much more rigorous conditions, you would have a hard time <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--> not<!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> being at least a little bit biased. That is assuming that you were the type of adcom member who's more concerned about accurately guaging candidates' academic abilities than about being politically correct.
P.S. I am, by no means, implying that candidates from Brock/Lakehead/wherever are less intelligent and capable than UofT undergrads. The above comments pertain strictly to the difficulty of the respective universities and their academic policies.
06-01-2002, 06:58 PM
I agree that Brock is easy - like I said, that's why I go there. I can honestly say that I've never met a premed at U of T who is happy - most are MISERABLE! I feel so sorry for most of you. If it makes some of you feel better to go to a tough school with low marks, so be it. If you want to look down at everyone else after you get rejected from all professional programs, so be it. In the end, if you want to get an interview, you have to meet the GPA and MCAT cut-offs. I agree that if you can make it at U of T you can make it anywhere, but the question is, can you make it there? U of T people love to complain how hard their school is - I have one word for those people - TRANSFER!
Remember, nobody asked you to go to U of T. You knew it would be tough, you knew the adcom members don't care where you go, so don't cry in the end if you get rejected. U of T is hardly prestigious. They only accept about 10 million people each year - what's the U of T B.Sc. cutoff these days, 75-80%? Oooooooooh! I'm not worthy of addressing you <kneel, kneel>!
Going to U of T is like giving a Brock student a 20 m ahead start in a 100 m running race. Even if I edge you by a bit, I still will win the race. Complaining about how you're really faster because you had a tougher time (which is true) doesn't change the outcome of the race. Good luck!
06-01-2002, 08:06 PM
I don't think that all the generalizations being made here are all that justified. Not because I know anything about Brock... but because small schools are not "easier" than big schools.
For example, the Biochemistry program at UVic is one of the best in the country. I have talked to Biochem students from UBC, Queens, and other schools and I laughed at their so-called "Honours" programs. They're lucky to do a Western blot before they graduate.
Employers ask for UVic students for co-op positions especially because they know they have some of the best lab skills in the country and because they know they have to go through our dreaded "Biochem 300" class.
Go to a school where you want to go and you will feel comfortable. Nobody likes "premies" who mold their whole lives on making their big application.
Live it up at the school you want to for other reasons. Even if those reasons are for their "reputation." Don't expect to get in to Med school because of it though.
06-01-2002, 08:30 PM
I dont know much about Brock, but I think for the most part go with the school that will give you the best marks. I went to UofT and luckily did well there but I saw alot of people try their hearts out and still end up with 3.5ish GPA's, that aint gonna by you a cup of coffee in a professional program. So if you can't even get an interview are you really even that better off?
Where I could see the advantage kicking in is if there are two candidates both with similar interview scores, GPA and extra stuff. In this rare case they may go with the better school name (this is just me speculating)
I also think that stressing yourself out to the point of insanity isn't all that great either. If you tried really hard in highschool ended up with lets say an 80% average at UofT your marks will drop at least 10%, this is a fact that is well advertised. So you will be around 70% or less. So who makes at UofT and probably most universities with super high marks probably had a 95% high school average dropped 10% will give you 85% university average, and that is getting competitive.
Finally, the environment can play a role in how well you do, if your constantly in contact with really stressed out competitive people, you may end up like them and your health and grades will pay the price. Its crazy what stress will do, when I instructed a couple of undergrad courses, people got pretty violent, I was threatened twice and once this guy offered my $1000 to ace him on the final (I was the TA for the course), he also offered to let me drive his BMW for a month! I told him that he couldn't buy a perfect final exam with $1000............it would take at least $2000!!....just kidding. I warned him if he ever tried to bribe me again he would end up infront of the dean of arts and science. So stress ain't a good thing, it can make normal people act like morons, something to also consider. Imagine having a zero on your transcript for for trying to bribe a TA, adcomms would love that!
06-02-2002, 01:39 AM
We have a student at UWO meds who went to Brock. . . though I'm pretty sure she only did one year there to boost her GPA after doing a degree in the Arts & Science program at Mac. I don't think there's any bias though against going to Brock. Med schools do NOT look at the undergrad school you attended (as far as I know, perhaps in the interview process). . . but certain schools do get more students overall into medicine programs.
For example, here at Western I think we have about ?38? U of T grads, 20 odd Western, Mac, and Queen's grads, and various numbers from the other schools. But I don't think that's a reflection for any bias for students from certain schools - I think Aneliz hit the nail on the head by pointing out that more people shooting for meds choose U of T, Mac, Western and Queen's, and I'd like to add to that those schools graduate more people from programs geared for medicine than the other schools.
And I don't think where someone does undergrad has a great reflection on how they'll do in meds once they get in. It is REALLY hard to judge who's doing well in medical school and who is not (the marks are H/P/F and don't really matter. . . they show that you can answer the questions on a test really well but don't necessarily show whether you'll be good at diagnosing, treating, and dealing with patients) but I think the med students who've stood out the most so far (based on their academic (aka test) performance, extra-curricular participation and skill in clinical methods classes) come from an extremely diverse background: Queen's, Mt A, MSVU, U of T, Western, Mac, Windsor.
On another note, personally I'm all over the small schools. You actually get to know your classmates and interact with them. Same thing with the profs - I loved being able (at a small school) to hit the bar on friday afternoons with profs. Of course, I (sort of, long story) went to a really small school (about 800 people) so I'm biased.
BTW - who doesn't do Western Blots in a four year undergrad biochem degree? I'm kind of surprised that by the idea some schools wouldn't allow you that opportunity!
06-02-2002, 09:21 AM
I'm with BrockBoy and UWOMED2005- small schools are where it's at!!! Best of luck tomorrow everyone- the real D-Day? :)
06-02-2002, 11:00 AM
The ultimate emphasis is to pick a school where you can see yourself being happy and productive. If you feed off of competition in order to succeed, if you need to have hardcore studying peers in order to study yourself, then you should probably go to a competitive school where studying is emphasized by most of the students.
However, if you think you would be happiest in an
environment where you can actually hang out with your friends and not discuss school, where your classmates want to help each other rather than hinder, and (this is important) you have the self-discipline to enforce your own studying (since your peers might not necessarily set the greatest examples) then go to a school that emphasizes personal growth as much as (or more than) it emphasizes academics.
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